Episode 63 - Michelle Castor: Supporting Folks in Transitional Portals

Michelle (she/they) is a mixed, brown, queer and non-binary portal doula, specializing in fertility, pregnancy, postpartum, grief, and transformation. Today Michelle joins Josie to give insight to what portals are, and their experience and insight gained from joining Fertile.

This episode touches upon finding your own way to absorb information such as creating visuals, how Michelle worked with her Liver and Heart Qi to improve their sleep, the way practitioners blended with folks who are trying to conceive in the Fertile Qmunity, plus a discussion about working with marigolds for healing, especially in times of grief.

[ID: A beige background and orange semi-circle. Text reads: The Intersectional Fertility Podcast Episode 63: Michelle Castor @aguasangrehealing and Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier @intersectionalfertility.]

Follow Michelle on Instagram.

Visit their Website.

Ready to shop better hydration, use my special link to save 20% off anything you order.

Registration for Fertile is open! Learn more and register here.

episode transcript:

Disclaimer: This is an automatically generated transcript edited to be more readable. It may not be 100% accurate.

[00:00:00] Josie: I am Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier, and this is the Intersectional Fertility Podcast, where ideas and identities intersect to deepen our understanding of fertility and ultimately our Whole Selves.

[00:00:33] Hi, friend. You've probably heard by now, or maybe you haven't, that registration is currently open for my five week online program called Fertile. Fertile is a queer, trans, and non-binary centered five week online program for folks with wombs to reclaim power over their fertility journey and conceive using the Whole Self Fertility Method.

[00:00:57] We get started in just a few weeks on September 4th, and that goes till October 8th. We will have live Zoom sessions once a week for the five weeks, and those times are listed on my website, intersectionalfertility.com/fertile. And if you can't make those live times, no worries. It will always be recorded and you'll have access to those recordings.

[00:01:19] You'll also receive five weeks worth of content in addition to the live sessions. So you'll have that content in the form of videos, downloadable handouts, worksheets, reference guides, all sorts of stuff to help you along in your fertility journey and also to help you support others and their fertility journey if you are in a support role. 

[00:01:39] Something that is new this session, which I'm really excited about, is I used to have it limited to one year access, and folks would have access to the program and the content for one year. Now it's lifetime access. So once you're in, you're in. So as long as I'm running Fertile, you'll have access to it, and that means you'll receive any upgrades or additional content that I add to Fertile over time which is really exciting.

[00:02:04] So, for example, this session, there's a couple new bonus resources that weren't there before. So in addition to things like how to prepare for egg retrieval, IUI, ICI, embryo transfer, how to track your cycle, a list of inclusive practitioners across the country, timelines and price estimates of egg retrieval, frozen fresh embryo transfer, IUI and ICI your exact traditional Chinese medicine diagnosis.

[00:02:32] These are just some of the bonus resources that are in Fertile. So in addition to those, you'll also this time get. Video that is a how to use acupressure to increase your fertility. A big piece of feedback that I kept getting throughout Fertile was that people wanted more guidance and instruction around how to utilize the acupressure points that we went over in Fertile.

[00:02:55] So I added an additional training for that. So that's really exciting. And then also the qmunity that is now where we're able to connect, outside the program and after the program, during the program whenever is much more robust than it was. In previous sessions it was just a, private Facebook forum and now it has its own platform.

[00:03:19] As you may have heard me talk about, it's away from social media. You can download the app on your phone and we get to connect there. It's really beautifully designed and easy to navigate, and I not only have our Fertile communities there with a bunch of like sub communities that are more specific for folks who are trying to conceive or healthcare practitioners or BIPOC only for example.

[00:03:41] But I also have a paid community there that is more connected to ongoing fertility teachings that I teach, coffee hours where I just kind of have open hours where you can ask me anything or just hang out. And then I also have extra podcast content in there, which is really cool. So that is my paid community membership.

[00:04:02] And now folks who join Fertile will get five weeks of complimentary access to that paid membership as well. So you'll get our Fertile community, and you'll get access to our paid community. So lots of exciting new bonuses this session. 

[00:04:19] There is an economic justice sliding scale. For all, and payment plans are available for all as well. And there are also scholarships for Black, Indigenous, and People of the Global Majority available. So to access those, you can go to my website, intersectionalfertility.com/fertile to read more details about the program and click through to the scholarship application form and the sliding scale and payment plan instructions.

[00:04:51] If you are a healthcare practitioner or a community worker including doulas, you are welcome to join Fertile and become certified in the Whole Self Fertility Method. If you'd like to do that, that option's available for you as well. I don't know if I mentioned, maybe one of the coolest things about Fertile is that your partners can join for free.

[00:05:11] So partner or partners, however many partners you have, they're welcome to join us and go through the program with us. That's been one of my favorite parts about Fertile is, creating that community and, you know, inviting your people to come with you and, and for all of us to meet each other and, and learn and, and strengthen this queer community around fertility.

[00:05:33] So I hope you'll join us. I really am excited for this fall cohort. I can't wait to meet you and be in community together. So again, to find out more and to register, go to intersectionalfertility.com/fertile. And if you have any questions, feel free to either contact me through my website using the contact form, or you can email me josie@intersectionalfertility.com.

[00:05:58] Thanks so much and I hope you enjoy today's episode. I'll see you soon.

[00:06:11] Michelle Castor is a mixed brown, queer, femme, and portal doula. They support individuals and communities in navigating the portal-like transformations of grief, loss, fertility, pregnancy, and the postpartum. Along with intentionally imagining and creating life on the quote "other side." Their nourishing offerings include intuitive coaching, herbal remedios, and gentle somatic support.

[00:06:39] Welcome to the podcast, Michelle. 

[00:06:41] Michelle: Thank you so much, Josie. I'm really excited to be here and it's really great to see your face. 

[00:06:46] Josie: Oh, so good to see your face. Yeah, I know. It's been a few months since we've hung out virtually.

[00:06:52] Michelle: I know, I know. The summer went by fast. 

[00:06:55] Josie: Mm-hmm. Would you share with us your pronouns and where you're joining us from?

[00:07:01] Michelle: Yeah. My pronouns are she and they, and I'm joining y'all from Kalapuya Lands in so-called Salem, Oregon. So a little bit about an hour outside of Portland. 

[00:07:11] Josie: And then I would love to know more about what you do, like what is a portal doula? What does that term mean? And yeah, will you share a little bit about what you do?

[00:07:21] Michelle: So Portal doula feels, I mean, it feels like it encompasses so much. You know, just like, just thinking about like, what even is a portal, and I think, like, there's a lot of different messaging that I've got from a lot of different people. But during the early days of the Pandemic, Arundhati Roy wrote an article about the Pandemic as a portal.

[00:07:40] And she said something, and this is I think a pretty close quote of like, how the pandemic is acting as a portal in the sense that it's forcing us to break from the past. And imagine our world's anew. And I think about grief, trying to conceive, prenatal care, postpartum, newly welcoming a baby, like those are all times where we're, we're really sort of like being forced to break from a previous chapter of our lives to the next one.

[00:08:10] And I got into this work, you know, I had been doing herbal work and working with people prenatally and postpartum and then got into body work. And was doing body work for, you know, like all, all sorts of like times of life for people, not just in like prenatal and postpartum. And really like, you know, that was a lot of focus on like how to create like, A sense of like home and connection in our bodies, especially for BIPOC folks.

[00:08:41] Especially for us QT BIPOC folks. And I really enjoyed also offering prenatal and postpartum massage during those times as well. And I think I'm like starting to get a little off track with going but, like, okay, so where was I? Where was I? And then, you know, so I was already kind of like in the realm of like working with people at these times of like great transformation.

[00:09:02] Mm. And a theme that has come up in my life a lot. And certainly was coming up a lot on the table during, you know, body work with folks was grief. And you know, and it wasn't until after I was going through my separation and divorce from my ex-spouse that I was like really kind of like started to relate with grief in a really different way and saw it as this like total time of transformation.

[00:09:26] It's very like chrysalisy, you know, like going through that like caterpillar to butterfly lifecycle, you know, or transformation. And so anyway, so all that to say is that I mean, I feel like portal work is that time of like chrysalis, that time of getting into the goo.

[00:09:48] I think there's this person on Instagram. I think their handle is @annika.izora and I mean it's Annika and I always feel so bad, like for, you know, trying to pronounce words that I've, or names that I've only like seen written. So I apologize if that's incorrect. But they posted something about like, you know, being in their goo era.

[00:10:07] Josie: Totally. Oh my gosh. I love it. 

[00:10:11] Michelle: So anyway, all that to say, you know, like I really have found for myself and then like for the folks that I was working with in these times that like being in this goo era, being in this era of transformation, it was just like so much more important to have something steady, someone steady.

[00:10:29] And you know, and like historically and, and today still, presently too, like so many of our cultures have and still do like hold one, like we hold each other in community to do this work. Like, we're not meant to do these things alone. It's, that's such a colonialistic capitalistic view to be like, you're supposed to grieve alone and in isolation and not like, burden anybody else with that. 

[00:10:54] Or even who or what you can grieve. And then with like prenatal work you know, postpartum care, it's like, it's just on you, the person who's birthing. It's like just not your responsibility, but everybody else is gonna have a lot of opinions, about how you do it, what it's supposed to look like.

[00:11:11] And trying to police you. And in some cases actually doing so too. So like all that to say, like, you can follow me on the journey. You know, this portal work is really this like steady ground for folks going through this space and, and really through that like belief of like, I believe that nobody should have to do this alone.

[00:11:33] And trying to create connection in times of where our society might otherwise try and like enforce isolation. So I support people with grief through, you know, navigating grief. Mm-hmm. And navigating the fertility and trying to conceive chapter of life through what, you know, right now, what I'm calling portal pláticas.

[00:11:54] And that's kind of like shifting nice a little bit, but this like, this like sort of heart to heart time. So plática, you know, meaning like a heart to heart and having just this like sort of like space for people to come to, with somebody who can hold that space and hold how they're showing up.

[00:12:13] And however they're showing up and offer guidance or offer a mirror offer curiosity. And, and really collaborating with folks to, you know, find ritual, find ways to honor you know, the, the journeys, the portals that they're navigating. Yeah. So helping support folks in that way and kind of how that shifting is a start is gonna move into like more of a lunar cycle container almost, but like over, you know, several months and several sessions of just like, oh, cool, let's take this journey together of like, okay, we're starting here and we're gonna go to here and we're gonna move over here.

[00:12:51] And really, you know, it's like all over. For people who are watching, you know, my hand's like darting all over. and, And then also I support, you know with herbal Remedios in that too. I'm a community herbalist. And so offer herbs to, you know, support cycles, or support grieving hearts, to support fertility.

[00:13:10] And everything in between. So that's another option or another way that we can work together. And then I also offer groups because I believe that no one should have to go through this alone. It's so important to have some like group space. So I, I offer a queer, trans and non-binary trying to conceive group two times a month.

[00:13:29] For the second and fourth Wednesdays of the month. Yeah. And then have been doing a, a book club, a queer fertility book club. Queer conceiving book club. I can't remember now what I even call it. Right. But we'll do that again in the fall, so. 

[00:13:44] Josie: Oh, so cool. So good. I love the work that you do.

[00:13:48] And whenever you post about something, I'm always like, share, share. 

[00:13:51] Michelle: Yeah, thank you. 

[00:13:52] Josie: It's always like exactly what I wanna be sharing. Yeah. 

[00:13:55] Michelle: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Well, same. I'm like I love all the work that you do too, and I'm also honored to be connected in this way. 

[00:14:02] Josie: Oh, absolutely. Feelings mutual.

[00:14:05] Well, I love that image of a portal doula and the portals that you're describing. And I think especially when you're talking about kind of the divorce and how that sort of almost instigated this like. And you're talking about the goo I love the era of the goo and, and if you look at my logo, there's a butterfly in there. 

[00:14:28] And that's totally where that's from is like from my divorce and going through the goo and then out came this iteration of my practice, so. I can, I feel that so deeply. That portal. 

[00:14:42] Michelle: Yeah. I'm remembering, you know, yeah. Just kind of that journey for you too. And like, it's such a portal and it's, you know, that's something I would never.

[00:14:53] 'cause there's so many, especially through grief and even creation energy. Like whether that's like trying to bring in a baby or trying to create a new business or you know, there's a level of grief that comes with that too. And there's so many platitudes that we're like, sort of, you know, given, I'm not gonna say gifted, but like given, that are like, well, the silver lining is this.

[00:15:13] And like during my divorce for instance, I have this affirmation deck that I like would keep pulling this card that like, Something about like on the end, like on the other end of, of destruction is creation. And there were so many months where I was like, if I get this card one more time, I'm gonna burn this deck. 

[00:15:31] You know, like, it was like, I don't wanna hear about those silver linings. And then it's like all of a sudden you like, get to this different place or like, I don't know, something shifts or Yeah. You know, some butterfly wings start to form out of the goo and you're like oh, oh.

[00:15:50] And you get to see, so it's a, it's just really exciting to get to see. And I love that you like have held that visual like in like in honoring of like in the work that you do of like, this is like how I have emerged from this time. 

[00:16:06] Josie: Totally, yeah. Yeah. For sure, I love that you bring grief into it in such a thoughtful way because I think there's grief at every one of those stages that you mentioned. Like it just, it goes hand in hand. 

[00:16:22] Michelle: Right, yeah. It's really like that, you know, that life and death cycle are, even if they're not physical births or deaths, there's like, there's some of that exchange happening constantly in those transformations. 

[00:16:40] Josie: Totally. Yeah. One more thought I'm having and then we'll move on. But this is, it is like such a juicy, I wanna like keep talking about this. 

[00:16:47] I recently interviewed Anjie Cho who wrote Mindful Homes, all about Feng shui. And, and we were talking about portals as well. We were talking about doorways and just like the doorways in your home and how you interact with them and like how it's like the literal translates to the metaphorical and a lot.

[00:17:07] I was like, this is so fascinating. And then, you know, kind of relating that to portal doulas and yeah, it's neat.

[00:17:13] Michelle: Absolutely. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I mean, and we see it so often and like, I mean, I'm sure you see that all the time in your work, and I know we talked about it in the Fertile program of like You know how like energetically we might be, we might be moving through something emotionally or energetically and then feeling it physically.

[00:17:32] Or in our bodies, you know, I think that like we see those, those replications of the literal to the metaphorical and the portals in some different, like they show up in so many different ways. 

[00:17:44] Josie: Totally. Yeah. It all makes so much sense. It's all so connected. 

[00:17:48] Michelle: Yeah, totally. 

[00:17:51] Josie: So I would love to know what compelled you to want to join Fertile and what did you hope to get out of it?

[00:17:58] Michelle: Yeah. I can't remember when I first heard about Fertile, but like, whenever I first, I was like, yes. I was like, you know, just like seeing the description. So probably like seeing the description and being like, here is a program for like, Queer and trans and non-binary folks looking to conceive and it prioritizes BIPOC folks like, sign me up.

[00:18:20] Like, who is this? I need to listen to all of their podcasts. You know, I think I like went on like an immediate like deep dive and like caught up on all your podcasts at the time and I love it. And just was like so excited to like know that it existed and it's like I know, you know, and for anybody navigating this world of conception and trying to conceive and fertility clinics, it's so refreshing to have space that is intentionally built for us. 

[00:18:48] And so like that at that was just like so powerful. And then like in getting to, you know, like in doing some of the deep dives with your podcast and like getting to like, you know, hear you and like hear like, You know, 'cause it's, it can be like challenging online, right?

[00:19:02] To be kind of like, who's like, what is this offering about? Or I feel like I, like you can probably tell my very like non-linear sort of like, here's my description about work. It's like, sometimes it's hard for me to hone in on like how I talk about what I do, you know? And then like, you know, also in like, kind of the converse, like thinking about how getting like a sense or a vibe from somebody.

[00:19:26] And like everything on your website, I was like, yes. Oh my God, I love this. And then I like, went to the podcast and I was like, oh my God. Yes. Like even more, you know, I was just like, just so appreciative of like, of the values that you bring to this work and the, like, mindfulness that you bring to this work and intention.

[00:19:44] And really like creating space for like, for our whole selves in this work, right? And instead of it being this like, well here's all these like, you know, physical things you can do and see you later. Like, I feel like you're really inviting people to do some like deep reflections like that really bring about some inner transformation.

[00:20:08] And think about like, kind of turning the soil, if you're like a composter, a gardener kind of person, you know, you're really like creating this like fertile soil environment through like all the different aspects of the program. And so I just, like, was so drawn to it. 

[00:20:23] Josie: I love that. Yeah. Aw, awesome. That's so neat to hear. That's, I'm trying to receive that feedback. 

[00:20:30] Michelle: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'll leave it there. You know, it's there whenever, whenever you're like, ready to bring it in. Yeah.

[00:20:39] Josie: Thank you. And then did you have any hesitations about joining Fertile? 

[00:20:44] Michelle: Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think like the time commitment you know, it's always like the resource thing, right? That's like, okay, do I have the time resource and do I have the money resource to you know, make this happen? And I think like I think a couple cohorts went by before I was actually able to join. And I think kind of like the hesitation was, usually ended up being time.

[00:21:05] And then I think when I ended up joining, I was like, it was like both time in five minutes. Right. You know, but then I was like, you know what, like, I just, I'm ready to do this. I feel ready and I wanna like, make this work. And I feel like I can commit to the time piece. And you, and I feel like you offer so many accessible, like options financially that like, with like payment plans and sliding scale and scholarships.

[00:21:33] So it just, like, it, I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this. And I think I, it was like maybe the week it was gonna start or something, and I emailed you and I was like, okay, can I do a payment plan? You know, like, yeah. And you were like, of course, oh my God. You know, like, and I just, I felt so, it just felt so easy and warm to like access that.

[00:21:51] 'Cause I think that can be something I know for myself that can be hard to receive of like, okay, I know sliding scale is out there, but like, you know, I know that a payment plan option is out there. And having just moved, I was like, okay, this is a little bit like hard to, you know, justify all at once, but yeah. 

[00:22:09] Josie: Cool. Oh, that's nice to hear. And then getting more into the content of Fertile, what changes have you noticed in your body or mind or spirit or emotions, either since participating in Fertile or during? Or whichever you want to talk about. 

[00:22:26] Michelle: Totally. Yeah. you know, like as a, I'm a Virgo Sun, so like, as like a good little Virgo yesterday, I was like, okay, let me like look back at all my notes, you know, like as I was getting ready, you know, preparing for this and reflecting.

[00:22:42] I think I had a moment where I was like, am I still doing stuff that I learned in Fertile right now? You know? And then I was like, oh my God, of course. Like I totally am one, you know, like I noticed so much throughout the program too. I felt like you know, certainly during the program I was like and even since have been like really interested in how like my sleep has shifted.

[00:23:02] I know you mentioned you know, 'cause I'm, I was somebody who kind of historically would have problem, like issues like falling asleep and staying asleep. So I had like this short window of time and I think like, I know you talked about like the I think it's like the liver qi being nourished for like staying, like getting to sleep and then the heart qi, being nourished for, for staying to sleep. 

[00:23:24] And I was doing some like iron supplementation around the time I was in Fertile and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm like getting to sleep so much better. Doing some liver support and then was doing some more heart based things and some of like the, the heart practices that you had offered in Fertile.

[00:23:40] And then I was like staying, oh, and I got an eye mask that whit had talked about. Yes. Yeah. 

[00:23:47] Josie: whit changed all our lives with the eye mask. Yeah.

[00:23:50] Michelle: I know. That eye mask. I was like, thank, bless you. Because that was just like, so powerful and just, and all of that, you know? So I've really been sitting with like, wow I used to kind of like identify as somebody who like had a lot of trouble sleeping and I feel like these past couple of months I've been like, maybe that can be different for me. Like, you know. 

[00:24:12] Josie: Yeah, like that's not who you are anymore. 

[00:24:15] Michelle: Yeah. Like, maybe that has been a part of my life and maybe it will be again, or, you know, and now I have more tools. To like navigate With my sleep. And then I think like some of the other practices of like how to like let go. I know like you talked about like how, like how wanting something so much, you know, can kind of like almost create a sense of stagnation. 'cause we're almost holding it like too, too tightly for like there to be movement and flow.

[00:24:43] And I'm definitely, again, as like a good little Virgo. Love a lot of control. You know? So I feel like that has been such a powerful practice of like, how can I find flow in you know, in my body, in my relationship with my body and in the world around me and in relationship with others.

[00:25:06] And really finding like that, finding those practices. Like Yeah, like kind of what we were talking about with like the, you know, the metaphorical to the literal and seeing it in our bodies and seeing it in the world, I feel like that has been staying with me a lot and then in that book club that I had been doing, we talked a lot about like partnering with our bodies, like being in the practice of partnering with our bodies.

[00:25:27] And just, you know, like starting to like, kind of like nourish and like, or maybe get curious or saddle up next to like that relationship for our bodies and really getting to like witness my body in a new way, you know, and kind of being like, oh, I'm trying to be more mindful of like, where I'm at in my cycle and noticing like okay, when I'm bleeding, like I am like really craving these foods.

[00:25:54] And I'm being able to connect it back to like some of the foods lists that, you know, that you had or like, or some of those like self-care practices for that time and really seeing like how that can kind of like move and flow and being like, wow, I'm getting to like see myself. Seeing my whole being in this new way of, or maybe not new way, but like maybe it's like helped like dust off the, like lenses, you know?

[00:26:20] That I get to see myself with and being kind of. Being in awe of that relationship, you know? I think there can be a lot of disconnection for really, Really true reasons. Right? Like really painful reasons. And, you know, not necessarily painful either, like mm-hmm.

[00:26:38] Sometimes we have a lot of choice in, in that disconnection and, you know, it felt for me, I think with like ways that I've maybe created disconnection or have had disconnection created for me, it was like such a beautiful invitation to like be in that practice of partnership. So I like definitely see that, you know, still, and like in kind of like coming back to my notes and kind of like reflecting on things.

[00:27:03] I was like, oh yeah, like I was really excited about starting this. And so it's like kind of re you know, like inspired and ignited. You know, some of the like, oh, I really like, I think when I sorry, I'm like going all over the place. 

[00:27:16] Josie: I'm following. I'm following. 

[00:27:17] Michelle: Okay. Okay. I'm interrupting myself. I think when I had, this is actually before joining Fertile. I remember like listening to, because you have a, a podcast about you know, like the different, like different times in your cycle and like what to eat. And I made like a, like a visual from that because I was like, Ooh, I'm really curious about that.

[00:27:36] And like, you know, and I know food can be like just a really challenging access point for folks. You know, for again, for good reason. Right. Like, there's so much layered into our food and histories of food and, you know, what access to food we have and all these pieces.

[00:27:56] And I really appreciated, you know, some of the curiosity that was sort of inspired in listening to that podcast of like, I'm curious if any of these foods feel like, feel like an alignment for me. Or like, you know, what sort of like ancestral foods might like be like, are Aligned here. So anyway, so I made this like visual. 

[00:28:18] Josie: Oh cool, I would love to see your visual. 

[00:28:20] Michelle: I know, I'm like, I shoulda have brought it. But then I was like, oh, I wanna like find that actually, that's why I was like, that's why I didn't bring it. 'cause when I moved I think that got packed up some somewhere that it hasn't been unpacked yet.

[00:28:30] And I was like, oh, I wanna like recreate that visual with maybe like some of the like acupressure points or, you know, there's just like so many like tips that I feel like are that fertile offers that you offer so much wisdom and resources and I feel like there, it can feel like potentially daunting at the beginning.

[00:28:53] And I think for anybody on a conception journey, it's like there's so much information coming at you all the time. Totally. And I think what's beautiful about like Fertile and, and what you offer is that like you don't have to get it all. You don't have to be doing it all, all at once. 

[00:29:08] It's like you're like, here are some options. Go with what, like, feels good to you. Start there. And then you can, you might find yourself in a couple months being like, oh yeah, I really wanted to try this thing. Or Oh yeah, I really wanted to make a visual of, this thing. You know, so I love that, like, like the cyclical option, you know, opportunity with that and yeah. 

[00:29:33] So anyway, all that to say is I got a lot out of it. It's really beautiful to like just get to see, you know, some of my sleep changes and get to see, like, get to see myself in like a in my body and like in that, in that partnership in like a really Yeah. I don't know if new is the right word, but like I'll say new for lack of better wording. New way. 

[00:29:53] Josie: Yeah. Oh, that's so beautiful. I love hearing about just the specifics of how it affected you and what you got out of it. And yeah, I did get that feedback from my first cohort that it was kind of like a lot of information and so I worked, I don't know if you saw there's that personalized fertility worksheet in the bonus resources.

[00:30:16] Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, totally. 

[00:30:17] Josie: Okay, cool. 'cause that one I worked with the designers who designed my, all my branding and stuff, and they came up with like this chart where you can fill out kind of based on your own diagnosis. For each phase of your cycle, like the different, like we did have food or diet or something and I switched out that word to nourishment because just, you know, if people don't wanna do food recommendations there and just, and have other forms of nourishment there. 

[00:30:44] And then like body movement suggestions and acupressure point suggestions. So you can kind of go by. Your phase of the cycle and have sort of more like at a glance, so you're not like having to like go through all the information. 

[00:30:59] Michelle: Yeah. Oh my gosh, I love that. Yeah. I need to print that out and try that out because that's cool. Yeah. I love that. 'cause 

[00:31:06] Josie: I mean, it sounds like that's what you did with your Yeah. With your circle. 

[00:31:10] Michelle: Yeah, totally. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's all combined, the two. Into this epic art project.

[00:31:19] Yeah, no, that's so thoughtful. 'cause it's like there's just so much information out there and to be able to kind of like filter it, and be able to be like, identify, okay, this is what I feel aligned with. Or this is like what feels aligned for like, where I'm I'm at in my cycles or my constitution.

[00:31:43] You know, and being able to, to more easily like, okay, grab, like, okay, these are, these are the things I'm doing right now. Or like, this is the thing. 

[00:31:51] Josie: And then if something doesn't sound good or feel aligned to just, yeah, Just do it. Ignore it. Just leave it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:06] This summer, I've been prioritizing hydration and trying to stay well hydrated. And you know, we talk a lot about how important staying hydrated is for our fertility. Liquid IV is the category winning hydration brand fueling your wellbeing and their hydration multiplier is the one product you're missing in your daily routine.

[00:32:26] In just one stick, you get five essential vitamins and two times faster hydration than water alone. You can use it first thing in the morning before a body movement practice, y'all know I don't like the word exercise. When you feel run down after a night out or on a long flight. 

[00:32:43] What I love most about Liquid IV is the convenient packaging, I also love how it makes me feel. It feels like I'm replenishing not only the water in my body, but the electrolytes in my body. It feels like a more complete hydration. Especially when I've been outside doing yard work all day and it's really hot out. So far, I love the flavors Concord Grape and Lemon Lime, but they have 12 delicious flavors to keep your hydration routine exciting.

[00:33:10] The other thing I love is that Liquid IV partners with leading organizations for innovative solutions to help communities protect both their water and their futures. To date, Liquid IV has donated over 39 million servings in more than 50 countries around the world. Get 20% off when you go to liquidiv.com and use code whole self at checkout.

[00:33:32] That's 20% off anything you order when you shop better hydration today, using promo code whole self at liquidiv.com.

[00:33:49] And then what feature or features did you like best about Fertile? Like the videos or handouts or live sessions or the private community as some examples? 

[00:33:59] Michelle: All of it. I'm like everything. No, I love the I mean, yes, I loved everything. I really loved the videos, like getting to like, and then how it like was partnered then with the live sessions. And then just being able to be like in community and virtual community with folks in the live sessions. And then, I know you've made the switch to qmunity away from Facebook, which has been awesome. And I know on Facebook I just like wasn't really on there that much.

[00:34:31] Totally. I haven't been on there too much yet on the Circle app either, but I'm so much more, you know, it feels like so much more refreshing to like, get on there. But I just loved like, Just like getting to like kind of hear and follow along, have some like additional ways to like intake some of the information both through the slides.

[00:34:51] Listening to you, I would have caption up, captions up too on the videos and then being able to like come bring all that, like, kind of like let that sort of simmer. You know, take that in. Write down questions, you know, and then be able to come to the group and like, get to see everybody's faces.

[00:35:10] Talk with each other in real time and, and just like be in that space together and ask our questions together and be supporting one another. You know? And I and I really love too, like the space that you create for, you know, obviously coming in as like a practitioner. I can't say with like all certainty, like how it was for folks coming in who are, are trying to conceive and maybe are not.

[00:35:32] Or if they are practitioners that's maybe not like their, their priority in joining. And from, at least from my lens, or you know, like it felt like it felt like there was like a really beautiful like coming together of like folks like it didn't necessarily feel like. I don't know, like, like it leaned one way too much, one way or the other, if that's like making any sense or like.

[00:35:54] Didn't feel like, you know, like, I don't know, practitioners or like weirdly voyeuristic about like people's you know, like conception journeys or anything. It just felt very like we're all sort of here for these reasons and they all kind of like align under this umbrella and we're like curious together. We're like supporting, you know, each other in these, these questions and ideas and that felt really beautiful to me. 

[00:36:20] Josie: Oh, that's cool. That's good feedback because in the beginning when I first started running Fertile, I was contemplating doing two different groups of healthcare practitioners and then people who are trying to conceive. And so far it's felt really nice to have both. Yeah. So that's good that, that came across. 

[00:36:40] Michelle: I feel like you've done a beautiful job with that. I think I had that, like similar, you know, curiosity and maybe even concern and opening and like doing the book clubs, and being kind of like you know, does it make more sense to have kind of like, the container look like this?

[00:36:56] With like folks who are solely trying to conceive and then, you know, container with like, folks who, so it's like given me some, some like, curiosities around that. 'cause I think initially I was like, I just, yeah. I would hate for someone to feel like oh, this, this practitioner is over here trying to like, get notes about what, like, my experience, you know, and I don't know.

[00:37:14] I also am like, I don't know who would do that, but, you know, like, just, yeah. It's like, I would just hate for people to feel like their, their stories are being I don't know, coveted or used in a way that didn't feel like an alignment with what they were consenting to. 

[00:37:31] Josie: Totally. I think so far it, it seems that Fertile attracts a similar person. Like, people are so far have just been really cool and like it kind of weeds out that people that might have done that. 

[00:37:47] Michelle: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I think, which is like such a huge testament to like what you do and put out there and who like Yeah. Who you bring, so. 

[00:37:56] Josie: Thank you. 

[00:37:57] Michelle: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. 

[00:38:00] Josie: I don't know, some of this we've kind of talked about, but if there's anything new to say, how have you benefited from participating in Fertile? Did you have any big revelations or light bulb moments? 

[00:38:09] Michelle: Well, yeah, I think like kind of going back to like the you know, the sleep thing and being like, oh my gosh, like my sleep really changed. And I know we talked about this in Fertile, but like that idea of like you talk about the boundaried self or it, maybe you used another word for it, but. 

[00:38:27] Josie: For the earth element? 

[00:38:28] Michelle: Yeah. Maybe it's nourished self. And, but that's like kind of. 

[00:38:32] Josie: Oh yeah, going from the Yeah. I'm forgetting also the words that I used. I'll have to look.

[00:38:38] Michelle: Yeah. I'm like, you know, like we're getting there, like. One way or the other with the words, I forget how Yeah. However you worded it. It was so beautiful. Yeah. I mean, and it's, you know, it's beyond like the label too of like, just the idea of kind of like understanding, you know, where I begin and end and where other people begin and end or where other beings begin and end.

[00:38:59] And that connection to The authentic self and like understanding my desires and you know, what brings me joy and pleasure, what my needs and wants are, and like really seeing those in alignment so much for me of like, or how much they connect. And of course, like all of these elements, all of all of ourselves connect so much in this work.

[00:39:19] So I just appreciate like that you can, you know, kind of like move us through, like, here are some different elements and maybe like different parts of ourselves and really like also holding space for like our wholes, you know, our whole beings in in all of this. And really just like, yeah, that connection just like blew me away just thinking about, I feel like I have been somebody who has, you know, I'm the eldest child and and did a lot of like, parenting, you know, as like a younger child.

[00:39:51] And Virgo maybe is probably part of that too. But, you know, just I've been drawn a lot too, like doing a lot of caring work and which has been really beautiful and I really love it. And I think sometimes I you know, in the past and that, that's certainly something I'll continue working on for a lifetime.

[00:40:08] Have like found, sometimes the edges blur a little bit and I'm like, but wait, what do I need right now? Or what I want right now? And thinking about how sometimes like my being my sort of edges or whatever get a little bit sharper when I understand those, those pieces, right? Of like, what is my desire?

[00:40:28] What is, what is it that I'm wanting right now? And so I think another practice that I've, I've picked up from Fertile is just being in that practice of asking myself, what is it that I want right now? Am I needing anything right now? And just trying to like, offer myself some reflection time.

[00:40:45] Through that. And yeah, really just loving that, being in that practice and being, feeling like, oh, I'm like able to like, and identify this a little bit quicker than I used to. Or like, wow. I, you know, like over here, like seeing, like seeing this and just like really like, like inner me is like going like, yes. Cheering myself on like, we got this. So that's been, that's, that's been another beautiful practice from Fertile for sure. Yeah. 

[00:41:14] Josie: Ugh, yeah. Yeah. I love, that's one of my, I've, I've, I've brought it up several times on the podcast, but it's one of the things I love talking about the most in terms of fertility are boundaries.

[00:41:24] And just how that that like macro level of us having boundaries in our day-to-day life affects us on a cellular level and where our cells actually need boundaries as well in order to conceive. Because if we have like someone else's DNA entering our body we need to have really clear distinction of where we end and where someone else begins so that we don't try to attack it, you know, so that embryo can make its home, you know?Yeah. 

[00:41:57] Michelle: I love 

[00:41:57] Josie: stuff like that. 

[00:41:59] Michelle: Totally. I mean, and that's like, again, I'm like, that's another thing that's like the, you know, the literal and the metaphorical. Different layers again of like how we see this on a cellular level and we see it on a body level and we see it in a, you know, in like external world level.

[00:42:17] And we see it, you know, just like we see it in, in all of these levels. And I think you had said something in in that session about, you know, the macro and the micro and the, you know, kind of the macro to the micro level and then the micro to the macro level. Like they all just kind of Yeah.

[00:42:33] Feed and flow with between one another and so it just is such a beautiful practice that has so many ripple effects in our fertility and in our, our worlds and our relationships. And it's really, really beautiful. Beautiful practice. 

[00:42:51] Josie: Cool. Yeah. Ugh. That's awesome to hear.

[00:42:56] And do you feel that Fertile has given you the knowledge, support, and skills that you need to feel more in control and empowered? I guess not as, since you're not necessarily trying to conceive, but as someone who's supporting other people who are trying to conceive. 

[00:43:10] Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I feel like that was like another thing that I felt so excited about with thinking about, you know, how I can support people in this journey. And, considering like joining Fertile, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited to just have like, be able to kind of expand, you know, some awareness of support.

[00:43:28] And really just like, I feel like I have a lot of, just like additional tools, you know, like just I feel like anybody going through this program, you know, like you're receiving so many, like, delicious, abundant tools for resources of like opportunities or like options to turn to. So I absolutely feel like there's so much to compliment, you know, like working with folks now, I like will work with herbs a lot of the time.

[00:43:57] And certainly like with the plática or like space holding, and heart to heart time is, there's certainly a lot of time for reflection and curiosity and I love bringing in a lot of like your journal questions. To the conversation as well as, being able to like point to like, here are some options for, for physical nourishment if that's something that you're looking for.

[00:44:22] And like, and having you as a resource too, in so many ways, like through your podcast or what you offer. Just even like when you post or on your website, you know, being able to have you to sort of turn to, if that makes sense.

[00:44:38] And like having like these accessibility around More accessibility around like acupressure points for instance, and, not being somebody who's an acupuncturist for instance. But but feeling like, okay, I have some awareness of like some useful points that might support you.

[00:44:57] Yeah. You know, and here's where this comes from and also and here is somebody that you can like, learn more from about too. So I love being able to have like that as part of like how I like offer medicine to folks too is being like, it's not just me who can offer things to you. It is like, I feel like there's a wealth of of resources out in the world and with so many different approaches to the work and to the medicine, and it's such a like, beautiful generative, expansive thing to like have the opportunity to learn from multiple people, so, right.

[00:45:36] I feel so grateful. To like, have gotten to learn with you and from you and like, feel just like I have like such a, like so much more, what's the word? Like hearty toolkit, you know? With which, which to like support support my clients in the conception journey, which feels so beautiful because it is such a journey of uncertainty and vulnerability and, you know, we can't of course, like pick the outcomes for our clients.

[00:46:07] It would be so cool if we could. And it feels like you know, just like that much more. I just feel so much more like secure and like I've got something to support you with. Kind of no matter where you might be at. 

[00:46:22] Josie: Right. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Recently I had A doula reach out to me because they wanted to gift Fertile to one of their clients. 'cause as Michelle was mentioning earlier, I just switched over Fertile and everything to this new app.

[00:46:38] It's just a whole different separate from all social media, which is amazing. So we have our own community and you know, there's webinars in there and there's all sorts of things, but, so this person reached out to me and was like, I really wanna just gift them like a month subscription to this so that they can access everything.

[00:46:57] Yeah. And then, you know, then once that month is up, they can decide whether or not they wanna continue. Right. And I thought that was so smart. I was like, oh, what a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. So if anyone else wants to do that, we figured out how to do it. Yeah, 

[00:47:12] Michelle: I know. I'm like, Hmm. I'm thinking about that too.

[00:47:15] Like, yeah. I'm like, I'll be in touch because it's such a beautiful. Such a beautiful offering and like, and you know, and I feel like with community and especially like being able to have it, you know, away from like other social media too, it just, offers so much in the way of like support and connection.

[00:47:32] Which is just again, like so, so needed in this journey. Totally. 

[00:47:36] Josie: Yeah. And then we have also, so I was able to create like different spaces in the community, and I did one for healthcare practitioners who have gone through Fertile. So if you go through Fertile, then you can have access to that group so that all the healthcare practitioners can be together.

[00:47:54] And then there's also one for BIPOC only. Which is nice too. And then, yeah, there's a few different sort of categories of spaces where you can get more, more specific of who you wanna hang out with. 

[00:48:06] Michelle: I love it. I love it. Yeah. Oh, it's so thoughtful and intentional. And I love the way you create that community. Thank you so much. 

[00:48:13] Josie: Oh, thank you. So how did it feel being in a program that was centered around queer, trans, non-binary, and especially people of the Global Majority? 

[00:48:23] Michelle: Yeah, it felt amazing. Like again, you know, like again, just from that initial, you know, I felt like seeing and initially and being like, yes.

[00:48:32] I'm so excited to like get to learn in an environment and like be in, in an environment that like is built for us. Yeah. Right. And like with us in mind and US centered as for us BIPOC folks. It just, I thought that like you held that space really beautifully. I love the practice you know, like virtually of having the like, star before the name.

[00:48:55] Just to like, create some of that like visual awareness and like, and calling in that intention. Every group, you know, of being like, and in the space, BIPOC folks are centered. And like our healing is centered. Our, our fertility is centered. And then just like really like getting to just be all encompassed in like a totally queer space. Yes. You know, was like, so refreshing. I don't even know what else to necessarily say. Other than I feel like I'm starting to repeat myself. I'm just like, it's so beautiful because it has us in mind.

[00:49:29] And like, we get to like I feel like there's a level of, of, you know, not having to explain ourselves. Or, or overly have to like, you know, like translate how we speak. Or even translate what we're receiving if that makes sense. Like so much in the, especially in the fertility world, it's like you have to kind of, there's this like little dance you almost, you know, have to do, right?

[00:49:54] To kind of like navigate the resources of being like, okay, how do I interpret this into how this makes sense for me? Yeah. And my family, my body. And also like kind of that, like, am I gonna be safe in this environment? If I talk about, myself, my family, my body in ways that, honor me and are true to who I am and who we are, am I gonna be safe?

[00:50:23] Or am I gonna be validated? Am I gonna be affirmed? And so like, we're like, we're navigating these spaces and there's these questions that come up and like, and you know, like, how do I protect myself? Like how do I wanna, you know, say this in a way that, you know, gets the answers that I need, but maybe I don't have to, you know, say this about this or something like that.

[00:50:47] Right. And I feel like that pressure, that worry felt like it for me. It just felt like it wasn't there. And again, you know, going in as a practitioner versus, you know, somebody actively or like on the journey of conception I wanna honor that, that, you know, can be, be really different, be a really different experience.

[00:51:08] Right. And also you know, I think that, that, that just felt really beautiful and felt really like, huh. Yeah. You know, sort of like just allowing ourselves to sort of like be, and exist without like, these additional maybe like pressures or layers or you know energies or oppressions even like, being imposed on us.

[00:51:30] Josie: Nice, yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I feel, I feel the same way honestly. Like in the groups that we have in the live sessions, they feel really good to me as well. 'cause I'm like I love being in, you know, all queer spaces where we're centered and it just, it feels like, yeah, I really enjoy that as well. So, yeah. That's nice to hear. 

[00:51:51] Michelle: Yeah. So joyful and awesome. I love it. 

[00:51:55] Josie: Yeah, same. Yeah. So what would you like to say to folks who might be thinking about joining Fertile? 

[00:52:02] Michelle: Yeah. I'll say go for it. You know, just go for it and I say that with all the like, love and gentleness of with making a big decision.

[00:52:12] I know it doesn't come easy. I'm absolutely somebody who, you know, hmms and huhs over it. I grew up in the Midwest, so that feels like such a Midwest thing, but like hmm and huh over every decision. And I, and I get it, you know, and I think this journey of conception too is you're, there's like a, so almost a constant of okay, I'm gonna have to make this decision.

[00:52:37] We're gonna have to make this decision. This decision needs to happen and it can feel overwhelming and decision fatigue is real. I think like sometimes I feel like the, the gentle encouragement of like, what if you just went for it? What if you just tried it?

[00:52:53] You know, I think can be like a really magical curiosity of like, what if I just committed. Yeah. There's a a podcast that I listen to that I'm totally spacing the name on. I'm gonna have to like, you know, follow up with you about it or something. But they talked about sort of like, oh, how do I know it's the right decision?

[00:53:12] And they said, you know, the right decision is the one that you commit to. And that has been, so I'm gonna have to find like, who said that. So I can properly quote them. But I just have really used that a lot in my life in making decisions. And I feel like that's something I bring into conversation with clients too, of like, you know, you're gonna find your way on this path.

[00:53:34] And no matter what and what you commit to is gonna be like the right decision. And then you go from there, and then you might find yourself back to the same decision you were just at and maybe you'll make a different decision than you did before. But yeah, I would say, you know, like if you're considering it like like, okay.

[00:53:52] Like checking in around like do I feel like I have the mental emotional capacity to sit with this information? At least in part now knowing that you have access to it for, it's like a full year. Is that right? 

[00:54:03] Josie: Yeah. And I think I might be increasing access to it. 

[00:54:06] Michelle: Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So there's like plenty of time to come back. And I know that like, as both somebody, you know, who benefits from this, when I take classes as well as like, you know, someone who holds space, I know how juicy it can be to like be in like the live sessions, for instance, as many as you're able or like catch the, catch the replays and you know, around the same time that you're watching the content videos or something just to like be in that.

[00:54:36] But anyway, all that to say, all that to say is I say, yeah, I'm like, I say go for it. Like have that check-in time of like, do I feel ready to, kind of like be, you know, learning or in this like learning place, but also connection place. Do I feel like I'm, I am maybe not ready, but like, do I feel like I am needing a sense of connection right now?

[00:54:59] Do I feel like I would benefit from a sense of connection right now? And then, you know, checking in with those hesitations too, if there, if there are any of just like I think that that can show us some, beautiful like wisdom too. Like okay. What's like, like maybe this hesitation is coming up because.

[00:55:17] X, Y and Z I don't even know. I can't necessarily think of like an example, Yeah. But the short and sweet answer to that is, I would say go for it. You know? I think that you're gonna get a lot out of it. and you don't have to like get it all in when the course is going either. So like, yes, checking in with like, do I have capacity to like, Be present for this.

[00:55:37] I think can be important. And also like you have this expansive time to revisit and come back and ask questions and be in community. Right. And be in the practice of community, which I think is like another practice that's really important for conception, for pregnancy, for postpartum. And just like building those, those webs of connection. 

[00:56:01] Josie: So important. Beautiful. Thank you. 

[00:56:05] So when you and I talked about coming on the podcast, I asked if there were any topics you'd like to talk about specifically today. And I loved your suggestion. You said marigolds and how do you say the, is it the Nahuatl name?

[00:56:22] Michelle: Yeah, Cempasúchil. And I might not be pronouncing it totally correct either. 

[00:56:25] Josie: No, that sounds right to me. So you said, let's talk about marigolds and their relationship to life and death and joy and grief and liminal-ness. I love that word. Yeah. 

[00:56:38] Michelle: Liminal-ness, yay. Because that's another thing with like portals is like, yeah, it's a very liminal space, right? It's sort of like the, you're not quite here and you're not quite there, and you're kind of everywhere at the same time, and you're like literally crossing or figuratively crossing a threshold. And many times. And so you're kind of in this movement. And even like, you know, like a birth or a loss is sort of identified as this very singular event, right?

[00:57:10] Like somebody was born on this day, or somebody passed away on this day, or our relationship ended on this day. But it's like the ripple effects of that, like that birth or that loss are felt, you know, over time. Both into the past and into the future. Like cempasúchil has been a flower, a plant that has just meant so much to me in my journey and in my practice over the years. 

[00:57:37] It's one that I turned to a lot. Right. Yeah. So, I just, I love that, like, especially across like BIPOC communities, there's so much connection to this flower, to this plant, and it's such a beautiful like light. And I was really, I think I was thinking about bringing it up in, in the podcast today or why that might be useful with like, kind of in the conversation going back to like portal doula things. And I was thinking about like, wow, I really love supporting people with trying to get pregnant and pregnancy and postpartum.

[00:58:10] And then I really, really love supporting people in grief. And these feel like they're completely separate like experiences. And what I love about cempasúchil is that I feel like it, for me made the like cyclical connection come to life in a way that like, I could start to wrap my head around and talk about. You know, because cempasúchil one of the, like I used to do a class kind of like, on the history of it, and so Oh yeah.

[00:58:38] I'm like, I'll have to like do that again. That was really fun. 

[00:58:40] Josie: Yes. I'll take it if you do it again. 

[00:58:42] Michelle: Okay. Like, yeah, I'll let you know. I would do it like kind of around Día de los Muertos. And talk about some, like the history and uses and my, you know, my practice in using it. And some of the different like myths or beliefs around it.

[00:58:57] And one of the sayings around cempasúchil that it's la vida que nace de la muerte. So the life that is born from death. And so it really captures that, that essence of the cyclical nature of it all. Totally. And it really, like, in my head, I was like, you know, as I was trying to think about like, okay, well I wanna do birth work and I wanna do grief work, and how do these go together?

[00:59:21] Like, of duh, of course they do. You know, like, cempasúchil was there being like, hello, you know, like right here, you know. And I just love that, what that plant has capacity for and even how we use it, you know, in Día de los Muertos like this time of remembering people we have lost. And it's a celebratory time, right? And we're grieving too, like, and it's, yeah.

[00:59:48] But there, it represents this life force, this energy, as well as this connection to, sort of like the beyond or afterworld or after death. And I just love like how it captures that essence. Totally. And, and it is like that liminal sort of like being too and being, you know, yeah. I'm mixed and non-binary and, you know, and I find myself sort of feeling a lot of time, you know, especially growing up mixed, like having this essence of I'm like, too much of this, or not enough of this. 

[01:00:26] Or, you know, and even being like queer and non-binary sometimes in a straight world, like, you know, yes. You feel like that goo right? Really relating with that liminal-ness too, of like, I'm kind of not either this or this, I'm, I'm this, you know? Yes. I'm both and, or totally. I'm really getting to claim that. And I think cempasúchil is just such beautiful medicine for feeling, really, like grounded in our beings.

[01:00:55] And being really grounded in that liminal-ness. And it not being like something that needs to shift. Because I think too, you know, like being in kind of a transitional state in portals, there can be a lot of discomfort because we're not necessarily moving in a way that.

[01:01:13] You know, it's like, why am I still grieving? Or other people being like, why are you still grieving? Or like, right. Or like, why haven't I gotten pregnant yet? Or you know, when when will I get to meet this being earth side? And Yeah. and I felt like you, you held space for that so beautifully in Fertile of just like the intense vulnerability and uncertainty that comes up in these journeys of conceiving. 

[01:01:40] And like really starting, like having to lean into hope in a way that can feel really uncomfortable. And being in this place of, I don't have a lot of control other than my hope, and how I take care of myself, and how I take care of my relationships, and how I take care of the earth.

[01:02:02] It can feel like we're sort of in a waiting period sometimes. And I think that like medicine, like cempasúchil, linden too, I feel like is another one that can be really useful for like creating some peace and some ease for like, okay, I'm here in this space right now. And I'm like held, this flower is holding me, it's holding me down. I am like you can be protected here in this space, in this body, in this being, in this time, in this place. And I just, I feel like I love, love, love, love that medicine so much. 

[01:02:39] Josie: Oh, me too. It's such a distinct smell for me. The marigold, I grew up in, well I was born in Santa Fe and so the first few years of my life was in New Mexico and we had marigolds, you know, there were just everywhere. That smell it still brings me back to being like three years old and I just, it's such a comforting. Like, and people are like, it's an odd smell. 

[01:03:06] I know. But I love it. Like, it's just so comforting to me. Yeah. I feel like the the joy and the lightness that marigolds bring too can be so healing with, when there's grief Yeah. And when there's, you know, that closeness to death and conception. So, yeah. Anyway, I would love to hear, like, do you have like, suggestions on how to work with Marigold? 

[01:03:31] Michelle: Yeah, yeah. I think there's a lot of ways to, to work with cempasúchil like, growing it, of course. And you know, I, I know like kind of you can see it like our, starts of it are like more popular I think at nurseries, like towards the beginning of the growing season. So like maybe in June, but you know, they've gained in popularity like for being sold I feel like around Día de los Muertos time too, so likeI think they're a little bit easier to find them too for as far as having a live plant. 

[01:04:01] But growing them, working with them in that way I think can be a really beautiful practice. I know for myself, like it took a couple seasons to like, grow them for me. I find that they're very much like they, they self seed, you know, like pretty well.

[01:04:16] Like if you've pulled off a, a flower head and let it dry and like you open it up, it's just like so many seeds in there. Oh, nice. And I found that if I was like trying to plant them for a couple years, it was like, they were like, I'm not gonna grow for you like that, you gotta let us do our thing.

[01:04:32] This is like a practice of like releasing your control. And I was like, okay, you know, so I think even being in that practice, smelling them, you can take like baths with them, like getting like the petals and putting them in a foot bath. Or in a bath with you, if you're already pregnant, I would say maybe not in a full bath with yourself but maybe with your feet would be fine.

[01:04:54] Yeah. But I would say like smelling them, like, you know, like just even like rubbing the flower, the petals or the leaves, and then like bringing your hands to your face. And bringing in that smell. Pictures of them, that orange color, like that, their orange or yellow, like they're, it's just such a bright, vibrant life-giving, beautiful. Like, it, it just like is so abundant and nourishing and wants to gift you so much. 

[01:05:25] Josie: Totally, totally. Ugh, I felt that when you said that. 

[01:05:28] Michelle: Yeah. Right. Like, you just like, feel like it's just like the rays of the sun come down. Yes. Yes. And I make a flower essence with cempasúchil which is like a you know, more energetic vibrational remedy of like the flower heads and water.

[01:05:43] And then it has brandy in it to protect it. Like, like I can't think of the word right now. 

[01:05:48] Josie: Like a tincture? 

[01:05:48] Michelle: Yeah, like a tincture. So it doesn't, it's not just water and it like helps preserve it. I was like, protect it. Yeah, it doesn't feel right. Preserve it.

[01:05:58] So, and you can use it that way, like a even just having that like on your altar, or with you, you know, or flower essences you can take internally too, like four droppers at a time in water. Beautiful. And yeah. And then I know I know there are people who make like different sprays with it and you know, different ways too. 

[01:06:20] But I really love, especially if you're feeling in a place of like, kind of like deep grief in a way where you feel maybe like disconnected, like being able to smell it, I think is like such a beautiful way to work with it. And kind of from like a sense of like, I wanna connect with my ancestors, or I wanna feel like a sense of groundedness, you know, like doing the foot baths or having it on your altar.

[01:06:47] Or using like a flower essence. And then there's other ways to work with it too. 'cause it's good for so many things. Like, you know, there's like, you can use it for like belly rubs for kind of like gas yeah, yeah. Like that's, that's a wide array. Dyes, you can use it for dyes and things. And like, even like carrying like the seed heads or seeds around with you too, I feel like could be a really way to, beautiful way to work with it. 

[01:07:14] Josie: Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Oh, thanks for sharing. I've been thinking about that in like, different ways to work with Marigold.

[01:07:21] Yeah. And for those who are wondering about how to make a flower essence, Atava who was on the podcast a while ago as well, wrote a beautiful book called The Curanderx Toolkit. And she has instructions in that book on how to make a flower essence. And I was, I was actually lucky to go do that in person with her a couple months ago. 

[01:07:43] Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. I'd never made a flower essence before and it was so cool and so beautiful. Kind of relatively easy. In terms of making, you know, medicinal potions. That was kind of a good introduction, so, yeah. 

[01:07:59] Michelle: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Atava's amazing.

[01:08:01] Josie: I know. I love her. 

[01:08:03] Michelle: Yeah. And flower essences are beautiful. They really are just like a really sweet way to work with the plants. And especially if you're doing live flower essences versus then you're like also kind of like. I don't know, partnering with the plant without necessarily like removing the bloom, which can be a really beautiful practice, especially around sustainability. Depending on the, the types of plants that you're working with.

[01:08:29] Josie: Totally. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. So, cool. 

[01:08:32] So lastly, I'll ask how people can find you and support you and buy all your things? 

[01:08:38] Michelle: Yeah, thank you. You can find me online through my website or on Instagram. It's aguasangrehealing.com and on Instagram @aguasangrehealing. And I have a remedio shop through my website. You can also book a free intro call too, or intro consultation call, just to kind of like ask questions and see if it feels like a good fit. 

[01:09:02] Especially I'm sure between the time we're talking today and this comes out, I'll have like solidified some things about how offerings are looking kind of moving forward. And then, yeah, find me on Instagram. Follow me on Instagram and keep an eye out for future groups. I need to post it in the qmunity. Actually. And then I'm hoping to start another book club in the fall. So keep an eye out for those. 

[01:09:27] Josie: Yay. And I'll include all those links in the show notes.

[01:09:31] So people can get to that easily. You're such a gem. Michelle, thank you so much for coming on. 

[01:09:38] Michelle: Ditto, Josie. Thank you. I feel so honored to get to be in conversation with you and just like moving in the world, you know, our, with our paths aligning in the ways. Thank you.

[01:09:49] Thank you so much for, for this really beautiful conversation. 

[01:09:53] Josie: Totally. Oh, absolutely.

[01:09:57] Thanks for listening to the Intersectional Fertility podcast. To get customized fertility recommendations based on your Whole Self Fertility Method Element, join my mailing list at intersectionalfertility.com and get immediate access to my two minute quiz. 

[01:10:14] If you like the show and want to hear more, tap subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and please leave us a review, it really truly helps. The Intersectional Fertility Podcast is hosted by me, Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier, and produced by Rozarie Productions with original music by Jen Korte.

All content offered through The Intersectional Fertility Podcast is created for informational purposes only, it is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.