Episode 24 - king yaa: Dancing For Our Own Pleasure

This conversation with king yaa (they/them/king!) is one long invitation into the heart of the topics of sex, pleasure, grief, and loss. king and Josie talk about pleasure as a means to connect with the self, pleasure’s role in activism, and how play is essential in the resistance to white supremacy.

[ID: A beige background and orange semi-circle. Text reads: The Intersectional Fertility Podcast Episode 24: king yaa @queerbirthworker and Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier @intersectionalfertility.]

CW: medical trauma

Connect with king on Instagram, Facebook, or on their website.

Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: This is an automatically generated transcript edited to be more readable. It may not be 100% accurate.

[00:00:00] Josie: I'm Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier, and this is the Intersectional Fertility Podcast, where ideas and identities intersect to deepen our understanding of fertility and ultimately our whole selves.

[00:00:23] king yaa is a gender queer person of trans masculine experience, and their sexuality is queer AF. Their Blackness is their superpower. king is an intersectional feminist and their work centers queer, trans, and non-binary folks wellbeing through full spectrum support, somatic sex and pleasure coaching, and gender affirming transitioning companionship.

[00:00:49] They also train intentional health and wellness practitioners on developing the competencies to care for and to create safer and inclusive practices for queer, trans and gender diverse people. king yaa supports folks of all gender identities, sexual orientations, and all bodies to have the audacity to intentionally and unapologetically have compassion for self in all their complexities as a radical act of taking up space and insisting on themselves. 

[00:01:21] They are invested in decolonizing health and queering up reproductive justice, as well as the collective healing and liberation of queer, trans, and non-binary folks, especially people of the global majority, also known as Black, Indigenous, and People of Color.

[00:01:49] All right, welcome to the podcast king. Thank you so much for being here. 

[00:01:55] king yaa: Thank you for the invitation. 

[00:01:59] Josie: So will you share with us your pronouns and where and the world you're joining us from today? 

[00:02:05] king yaa: My pronouns, my name is king yaa, and my pronouns are they/them/king and I am joining you virtually. I don't share where I am in the world, so yeah, I just like to make sure that I keep that between me and my people who are closest to me. 

[00:02:22] Josie: Absolutely, awesome. So I would love to know what your story is of what led you to do the work that you do, you do such incredible work of queer and trans reproductive justice advocacy. What is that story? How did that, how did you get to do the work that you do? 

[00:02:39] king yaa: I think like most of the work that I do, or I have done has been born from my own anything, my own challenges, my own life. So this chapter, this chapter of where I'm at right now was born for my own frustrations with trying to find gynecological care specifically for this queer body.

[00:02:58] And at that time I was more masculine presenting, but I wasn't trans, I wasn't exactly going through a trans experience at the time. So there was a lot of challenges that I was having just trying to find a gynecologist every single year for my checkups. And even though I asked a lot of my queer friends recognizing that we still have different points of intersections with our identity.

[00:03:26] So while it might work for a white lesbian, especially in Cape Town, which is where I was at. It was a lot more complicated for myself as a Black queer masculine health centered person, which is how I identify that at that time. So even when I asked for referrals, it did not equate to someone being safe or there was actually a lot of harm.

[00:03:53] And it was almost as if it was off-putting. So I know a lot of other Black queer, not even necessarily masculine presenting lesbians in Cape Town who just simply did not go for gynecological care. So it's not like I could ask them because they're like, you know, I dunno if I can swear on your, your space, but they were like, you know, fuck it.

[00:04:13] Like they're just not going. So they meant, which meant that they were no longer going for pelvic healthcare. And also if they did go. That they had to lie about who it is that they're having sex with, or not disclose that. And when I went, I was my full ass self when I'm asking questions.

[00:04:32] And just seeing that the doctors were incredibly uncomfortable with me I shared that, I shared recently that I had one experience where the doctor, nevermind what the experience was like in the waiting room. Where the doctors just see when they come out and they're, they call your name and even though you answer, they're still looking around you for somebody else.

[00:04:55] I imagine they're looking for somebody who's more fem presenting. And they were just really uncomfortable even with being in a room with me, like closing the door, even though it's my privacy that's at stake. I don't know what they thought, but I don't know what they thought. I don't know if they thought I was gonna attack them or if this was some, I don't know what it was.

[00:05:15] But in a meanwhile, I know that I'm going to be within a few minutes unclothing and, and having to have an intimate experience with this person who was already being quite weird. And then asking like a lot of inappropriate questions. And so already like just setting up, I was already uncomfortable.

[00:05:35] I already have called, There's one doc, this one doctor that I'm thinking of that I called and when I got there I was actually a little bit surprised and excited because I had called and I asked if the doctor is LGBT friendly, and they're like, Yes, of course. And when I got there, the person to me at the desk of the receptionist who I'd spoken to and booked my appointment with was a white, very butch looking woman.

[00:05:55] I was like, Okay, maybe I might have, But no, it didn't work out that way. And yeah, and then the, the doctor continued to ask me like, questions and, I think that some questions were obviously legit. Like if I have children, I'm like, Yes, and they looked up at me. How could this be? And I'm like, I had children, like, you know, people have a uterus sometimes do.

[00:06:18] Josie: Right, oh my god. 

[00:06:19] king yaa: You know, I go, I still have a uterus. I don't know, I don't even know what they're thinking. Right? All I could just see is the question marks. And then proceeded to with the pelvic exam when I said that I want the smallest speculum that you have. And they're like, Why? Like you already had children. I'm like, You don't know what I do with my body parts. 

[00:06:34] Josie: Right. 

[00:06:35] king yaa: And they're like, Did you have a c-section? I'm like, No, I gave birth vaginally. However, I'm still asking for the smallest special one that you have. And can you please like lubricate it? And I'm asking for what it is that I needed. And I also asking you like, give me like a heads up as to when it is you're gonna be doing something.

[00:06:53] So like, don't just surprise me. And then asking me again while I'm on a table. So you had children, like they came out of your body like, and I'm like, Yes. You know? And in fumbling that they actually stuck the, the speculum right. In the wrong place. So and then I had to then say can you actually switch it?

[00:07:12] You just went in my asshole. Can you switch that up now? You know, so that was, it was horrific. And that at that time, I think that that was probably like year five. So this is many, many bad experiences. And again, then having conversation with other people and realizing that people are just not going.

[00:07:35] And that is just unacceptable. I mean, that's just, I've had my whole life had a lot of issues with bleeding and the pain and the cramps. Sometimes I've had many times where, actually at a suicidal kind of rate level and still not getting, nobody has ever actually given me kind of care that I needed.

[00:07:55] So at this point I just got getting really frustrated and there was a lot of other things that were going on in my life, but I just knew that this was something that I needed to talk more about. So at that time around, I'm trying to think of when that was. I think it was like, 2018, I already was moving in this direction.

[00:08:12] And that I did training, birth work training or doula support training with, birthing advocacy with, Sabia Wade, the Black doula. So from there I just moved on from there and I really knew at that point, like what I wanted to kind of have conversations with and what end of birthing work that I wanted to be involved in. 

[00:08:34] Josie: Right, wow, yeah. That story, every time I hear it, I'm just like, I'm just appalled and disgusted and I feel so angry that that happened to you. And that that happens to people and that it keeps them from getting the care that they deserve. Yeah, it's just. Ugh. 

[00:08:53] king yaa: Yeah, and also another frustrating thing about that experience, that particular experience was that they did find something in the culture. And they sent me in an SMS that I needed to go get a prescription. And I called back immediately and I was like, What is the prescription for? Cause they didn't say what it was for.

[00:09:11] And no one would ever call me back. And I called like a few times, like, rather than just sending me an SMS, why won't you speak to me? And let we know what is actually wrong, right. You know, and I never did, I never did get an answer as to what it was. So I didn't fill the prescription. 

[00:09:28] If you don't have, if you can't even like, speak to me and give me any kind of feedback about results that I and, it's South Africa, so you kind of need to, not everybody has access to healthcare. I pay quite a bit to have, make sure that I have access to healthcare right. And yeah. And to still to get that level of care, or lack of care. 

[00:09:50] Josie: Wow, right. Lack of care. That's appalling.

[00:09:53] king yaa: Yeah.

[00:09:54] Josie: Thank you so much for sharing that story with us. Also, you are absolutely allowed to swear. 

[00:10:00] king yaa: That's good. I dunno if I can help myself. Swearing's a huge part of me. 

[00:10:07] Josie: Yes, same here. I love it.

[00:10:10] king yaa: Yeah, very cool. 

[00:10:11] Josie: Yeah. So I know kind of two ends of the spectrum that you specialize in or focus on. One end of the spectrum is sex and pleasure. And one end of the spectrum is grief and loss, and I wonder, are, I'm guessing that those two are more connected than we realize. I wonder what about these two specialties called to you, and are they connected in your mind at all, or not really? 

[00:10:38] king yaa: They are, yeah. I'd have to say that they are. So even just starting with grief and loss I think that there are so many portrayals of grief and loss for Black people, number one. And also for queer and trans people. And there's a lot of times while we're showing like death or I'm always seeing where there's been another trans woman who's been murdered.

[00:11:05] That's heavy. And even knowing about the experiences that people who are of trans experience who are queer experience in reproductive health, but just in life, right? Cause I really believe that everything comes down to, you know, reproductive health in the first place, right? That we're not also giving an opportunity to talk about.

[00:11:27] Where else can we be? Like what about our pleasure. And what about our, mostly our pleasure. Cause I know wanna say like, all the times it's attached to sex. You know, but our pleasure, right. So yeah, they're definitely connected and I think that we need to have more conversations about being able to access pleasure points in our lives.

[00:11:48] And for many of us who have so much, so many experience of disenfranchise unrecognized grief and loss. Especially I know that during 2020 when, you know, the whole world kind of locked down where a lot of people were planning to do many things that were affirming for themselves.

[00:12:07] Having access to gender affirming care for the first time, maybe it might have been appointments with endocrinologists to talk about hormones. Maybe it might have been scheduled appointments for gender affirming surgeries. But also it also meant, and those things being canceled, but it also meant being locked at homes for many people, with people who are not affirming being locked in a house and having to endure being misgendered, being misnamed, being called by their dead name.

[00:12:37] And whatever perhaps violence that they might be experiencing in their, their place of home where it's supposed to be a place of refuge and sanctuary. And I know that that can be extremely overwhelming and like, what do you do? Right? So being able to access, pleasure being able to have like ways that you can tap into.

[00:13:04] Joyful moments and playful moments for yourself and being able to, you know, which is a strain as work, right? I can't even say that it's easy. But I think that it is necessary because we need to, you know, I talk about our thrivation as queer and trans people. I'm here for our thrivation.

[00:13:22] So I'm not even just talking about basic level survival, right? Basic level for survival, of course, is important for many people, and maybe that's the best that they can do. But I'm also hoping that we can take it a step further, you know, for ourselves and think about what that might mean.

[00:13:38] Maybe it might mean, and right now when I think about it, I'm thinking of, cuz of my work at that point started in Cape Town. You know, and I know that during that lockdown there was a lot of students who were going to school in the cities, but they were immediately put on buses and sent back home to, and sometimes it was like rural parts.

[00:13:58] Of Eastern Cape in South Africa. And I'm thinking of maybe many people in a home, and maybe not having as much privacy, and maybe not having access to your friends in the same way. Because maybe a data on your phone is not as accessible as it is, you know, when you're living in other places, you know, sometimes we think we'll just be on your phone and do face timing and sometimes that's not easily accessible.

[00:14:26] Josie: Totally, yeah.

[00:14:27] king yaa: Right, but being able to lie out in the sun sometimes and just let the sun sit on you. Maybe just, you know, lying on a sun and playing music, maybe going for a walk with yourself. Maybe journaling maybe, you know, writing poetry, maybe, you know what I mean? Like being able to access these little small trinkets of moments.

[00:14:48] That feel pleasurable for you and could be a little bit of an escape, you know? And be able to connect to yourself. When everything around you is actually trying to disconnect you from yourself and wrong you for being yourself. So yeah, definitely I do see that there's a connection between sex and pleasure, and also grief and loss. And I think that we need to, we need this, you know, Yes. For survival, but I'm going beyond that and not always for our thrivation.

[00:15:19] Josie: I love that so much, yeah. Which brings me to my, one of my most favorite things that you do that I've been able to witness you doing is your queer Black pleasure activism practice.

[00:15:35] I love hearing about you talk about it and seeing the practice that you do that you're willing to share with us on Instagram sometimes. Because also from a fertility standpoint, you know so often, folks lose sight of pleasure and connectedness, you know, not only to themselves, but also their partner or partners.

[00:15:59] And especially if that fertility journey requires medical assistance or medical intervention. So I would just love to have you share with our listeners like what your queer Black pleasure activism practice is and how it got started. 

[00:16:17] king yaa: Yeah, definitely. I started it last year, so in 2021? Yeah. And it was meant to be a year practice of tapping into pleasure activism. And when I started it, I wanted to document it in more than one way. So one by keeping a journal which I think I shared with you at that point. I think I shared it on IG, on a journal, but also to document it, which is like photos.

[00:16:48] And while I might have shown a picture of a view of looking out of a window and the trees beyond that and the leaves, right? The view is usually me laying down or could be me laying down. And it could have been for me looking after I just finished eating a really good meal or maybe lying on my lover's lap.

[00:17:08] For me there's a lot in that picture and in that moment, but I did a small capture. And I'm sharing it with the world. You all don't know what all of the story is behind that. But for me, there's a whole entire story of that day in that moment. You know there's one moment where, was there was a blackout, I think there was a storm.

[00:17:27] And having dinner by candlelight, you know, so tea plates together and that was, there was a lot more going on, obviously. But just figuring that out, like how to make a meal in a blackout. And fortunately there was a gas stove, but not knowing how to figure that out. So it took like a long time , so, you know, we were mighty hungry by the time, we ate.

[00:17:53] Yeah, that took us a minute, but just capturing moments and being able to find pleasure in like the smallest moments. I love flowers. I love trees. So for me, I did take a lot of pictures of trees because every single time, I mean, Not every single time, but a lot of times when I pass by a tree, I'm in awe of his beauty.

[00:18:17] I love seeing roots. I love seeing when the, it is all gnarled up and, you know, and when it starts doing that intertwining thing, or sometimes when there's two trees and they're close together and they start, you know, mingling together and the leaves that come out of it and the branches and the flowers of mixing of flowers, like, I love all those captures.

[00:18:36] And sometimes it is the raindrops like on a window pane after, you know, when it's just kind of like slowing down and after a storm or something. Those are all pleasurable moments for me and have zero to do with sex. But it is being able to find pleasure in all of the small moments because I need them.

[00:18:57] I think that we all need them cause I think that they weave a story for us especially when it might be easier to be overwhelmed by all the shitty things that might be happening in our lives or all the shitty things that we're seeing, witnessing on, on IG. Cause there's a lot of porn in there.

[00:19:16] Trauma porn in that happens there. So a lot of times, whenever I'm on IG, I'm usually watching people dance. I share some of those and also baby's doing cute things. So where, what do you find pleasurable? Right, and then trying to find those moments.

[00:19:36] And make sure that you have enough of them because they do weave. I feel like they do weave. Thrivation for us. One of the things I'm gonna actually, I feel like being I'm a little bit called to share is that I think about my end of life, right? So that's another thing that I'm also interested in the end of life things.

[00:19:57] And I think about people who have not experienced a lot in life. Like they, I don't know, they just didn't do a lot for whatever reason, right. And I know that in moments of my solitude, I relive a lot of things in my life. And I have so many, I have so many access to beautiful moments and beautiful memories.

[00:20:20] So I think of right now, even this, the pleasure activism, this daily practice. What I'm doing is storing a bank like a huge bank for in the moments of my end of life when I might be lying in bed or even, not even, you know, end of life, maybe it's, you know when my memory starts fading. What memories am I gonna have when I'm lying there to myself and repeating over and over again?

[00:20:42] Is it gonna be ones of trauma? Is that what I'm gonna feed myself into my memory bank? Or is it gonna be flowers? Is it gonna be smells? There's this one flower that is from a tree here that is just, it's white. We used to have it in Cape Town, I have no idea what the name of this tree is. There's white and this little bit of yellow on it.

[00:21:00] And when you pass by it, even if you don't see the tree, you can smell it. And I wanna always remember that smell right. You know? And I put that in my memory bank. I put the sounds of babies that gargle that, babble that's in my memory bank. Yeah. And then also, you know, memories of my children do all sorts of foolishness, you know.

[00:21:20] And people who I love, their laugh. Their laughter. So I think that's important. I think that we need to do it for our now. But also for that memory bank for when things are, when we're trapped the only place that we have is our memories that were just trapped in our bodies. And we may not have access to going out and, and experiencing these things at that time.

[00:21:44] Josie: Ugh, totally. I can really relate to that. I feel like I do that as well and I have those thoughts of like, what if I'm bedridden at some point and what am I gonna be able to think back on and relive so that it gives me that, that pleasure and joy without leaving my body or my bed or whatever.

[00:22:10] king yaa: Absolutely, yeah. For sure. 

[00:22:13] Josie: Yeah, I just got goosebumps. I feel that. So, I'm just curious too, do you remember the very first pleasure activism act? Do you remember what it was? I don't. 

[00:22:27] king yaa: I don't. I'm gonna guess it had something to do with either food, I really, really, really love food. So that's something that I post a lot of are meals or like trees, something. Trees or flowers like, yeah. But actually, but now I'm curious. I'm gonna go back and take a book and see what that was. 

[00:22:48] Josie: Yeah, totally cool. So what do you think about that practice? I'm gonna call it QB, QB pleasure activism. So I don't get tongue twisted every time. What is it about this QB pleasure activism practice that is revolutionary and how has it changed the way that you interact with and exist in the world? 

[00:23:13] king yaa: I believe that my queer body, my Black queer body, and when I say queer, I mean in all forms of queerness that includes my trans experience. I don't believe that there's anything set up to keep us alive. Right? As a matter of fact, there's a lot that is out there to ensure that we perish and die. For us to be killed, for us to live unsafely for us to yeah, to just no longer exist actually, right?

[00:23:47] And so I believe that's a very defiant, you know, of us to say fuck that. Here are our needs and we're going for our needs. And beyond our needs, these are things that bring us joy and pleasure. Right? And to seek it out and to declare it and show it. And, and I used to see like, I've seen like Black people dancing.

[00:24:11] Right. And I'd always think, like, especially looking back at like some old movies where the only thing that we saw Black people do was dancing with a big smile on their face. And as if, but I didn't feel like it was, it was us being joyful for our own pleasure right? That we're doing it as a performance.

[00:24:30] And sometimes it was for our safety that we have to look like all is good. All is good master, all is good. But when I see us dancing for our own pleasure, when I see us, when I watch people, I mean, I don't wear makeup, but when people put on makeup on those, you know, those reels and they transform themselves and they're just, I imagine them sitting there thinking of taking this moment just to be with themselves.

[00:24:57] And to play with themselves. For them, their tools, their instruments of this play are makeup and brushes and things I don't really know much about, but I watch stuff, you know, and especially watching people of all genders access these playful moments with themselves where they sit there. 

[00:25:17] And just for 20 minutes, you know, sometimes longer, sometimes hours. And then they document it and they do this whole thing of making sure that they're saying to the world, I exist and I'm here. And I'm, I'm worthy of this, this moment. And I wanna document, I want y'all to see that I'm doing this shit. And it's not for them necessarily, but it's a asserting a place in the world and I deserve this.

[00:25:40] Totally. Right. And it's for themselves. I really believe this strongly. It's not even so much for other people's consumption, but it is, You know, if you've never had an opportunity to be on a big screen or see yourself on a big screen, you're doing this and now you can see yourself on a little screen and you're a celebrity. You're somebody as well as, like anybody else, you know? I'm not sure if I remember the question.

[00:26:11] Josie: That's totally fine. I have this wonderful visual now of someone doing what you're describing. And I just, I love that, and it's so contagious when you see someone really enjoying themselves.

[00:26:23] king yaa: That's exactly it. I love seeing it as well. 

[00:26:28] Josie: The question was, I just wanted to know like how it has changed the way that you interact with the world, or how you exist in the world. 

[00:26:37] king yaa: Yeah. So I think that that, that what I shared earlier would definitely speak to why it is revolutionary and why it is, and choosing ourselves is definitely revolutionary and documenting and being firm and grounded. I exist, I'm here and look at the fucking beautiful life that I'm creating for myself, even when you're stepping on my throat, you're not stepping on my throat, step back.

[00:26:59] You know, take many steps back. Yeah, so I, I like to see more people, obviously crafting this and owning this and making it a part of their practice. Of course I'm not ever saying like, everybody, hey, do this, but I'm living it and I'm hoping that other people will say, Hey, let me be intentional.

[00:27:24] Let me make sure that I do this. And if you have people around you that they're, have an opportunity to see you doing this as well and seeing that this is also important and that they can also do the same thing in whatever way that feels good and also accessible for them. And also just seeing that it can be accessible.

[00:27:45] On our own terms, in ways that make meaning for us, right. Because I think that if we sit there and watch what I don't, you know, But if we were to sit there and watch what white people are doing and how it is that they entertain themselves and, you know. Some of those ways are not accessible for us. But also they may not be of interest to us. Maybe not everybody wants to go kite surfing, maybe that's not for everybody. And maybe all of us don't have access to yachts. 

[00:28:15] But what we do have access to, for some people it is playing with their face and all that. What that means for them, because it might mean a lot of things for gender expression. And then also having access to playing with clothes and again, gender expression, but just being lovely. In whatever way that that means for them. Yeah, so I'm hoping that more people will find ways to craft it into their lives. 

[00:28:46] Josie: Well, I certainly feel inspired when I see you do it. I'm like, it brings me into my world and thinking about things through like, Well, what does bring me pleasure and have I prioritized that today? One of the first times you and I met for like a virtual meeting, I was telling you all the things I was planning to do for like my activism work. And you were like, That sounds exhausting. 

[00:29:17] king yaa: Sounds like me.

[00:29:20] Josie: You were like, What are you doing for your pleasure? And I was like nothing. Yeah, so that was, I was so grateful that you kind of tried to turn that around for me, and 

[00:29:34] king yaa: I think that's important too. So when I think that when we think about activism, that we think of all the things that we need to do, like we get, like there, puts this into a certain kind of energy. And I guess because from my own experience of being involved in like grassroot organizations and other spaces of activism, that it can be exhausting.

[00:29:57] And I don't think that there's a coincidence that there's burnout in activism, in activists and there's so much shame and guilt in when you need to take time off for your own care. Like you're still in bed and you're sick and coughing and you're thinking, I need to get back out there.

[00:30:15] I need to get there to a protest. What does it do, especially during 2020 when there were so many things that were going on and there were a lot of people who were on the ground and there were protesting. How that is exactly white supremacy wants us to do, is for us to be tired as fuck.

[00:30:34] Right. You know, for us to be out there, even that angry energy. And I'm not saying that we're not meant to be angry, we have every single reason to be angry. But imagine that what it does to our body and every cell of our being, holding that energy all day. And not even being able to feel like we can take time to rest.

[00:30:57] What does it mean to actually find pleasure? Like how can we have pleasure as part of our activism? You know, and incorporate that and bring other people in. So maybe it might mean meetings that involve food, you know? You're sitting around eating some really good food while we're talking about the shit that we need to be doing.

[00:31:19] And also maybe taking some moments of silence where we're just sitting there and just tasting the food. And there might have been some moments where people all had hands in involved and making the food, but finding those moments so that there's still pleasure involved in our activism.

[00:31:37] Definitely. I'm quite certain that I might have said that to you. I don't recall it , but I always wonder, you know, about the wellbeing of people who are out on the streets. Because I have been there and I do know that it takes me, when I've been to protests and it takes me maybe a week to recover.

[00:31:58] I remember that during 2020 we were talking about protests that are happening like daily, Right? Daily. In addition to us being in the middle of a pandemic. We're talking about Black lives. And thinking about our, in addition to us not just having to get through pandemic and whether we're gonna have a job, whether we're gonna have income still coming in.

[00:32:20] But now we're also being faced yet again about this exhausting thing of people trying to kill us, based on race. Because of racism. We need to have those momentsm we just have to. 

[00:32:40] Josie: Yeah, totally. So I would love to hear from you about how people can start their own pleasure activism practice. I know that you don't like telling people what to do, but I would like to hear it.

[00:32:56] king yaa: I absolutely do not like to tell people what to do but I offer suggestions and invitations. I offer to think about the smallest of things that bring you pleasure. So and it can be something like, you know, if you have littles, their hugs. You know or maybe as giving them a bath. Maybe it is, maybe you're an artist and maybe it is painting.

[00:33:23] For me, I'm not an artist. I have no skills whatsoever, but I always yearn for like I say, yearning or longing to have my fingers in paint. I don't want brushes. I wanna feel something tactile. I would like to also do some things with clay. 

[00:33:38] But whatever it is that, sometimes it might mean going back and thinking of your childhood and thinking of the things that, you know. Cause I don't think, especially if you're Black and brown, we did not have a long enough childhood. So tapping into what our inner child and the things that used to bring us joy that we didn't ever, we never got enough of.

[00:33:59] And claiming that we don't need to be holding onto this adult thing. I always get highly offended when people talk about me being an adult. I'm like, I did not own that. 

[00:34:11] Josie: I did not consent. 

[00:34:12] king yaa: I did not consent. I might be older, but I have access to many of my childhood things and joys and pleasures. And one of them is eating cookies. I used to have like one of those baker oven things, I dunno what you used to call them, You know, when you had the little mix and then you, do you know what I'm talking about? 

[00:34:31] Josie: Like a, box mix? 

[00:34:32] king yaa: Yes, but it was like a little oven and, I don't know if I'm like dating myself, but I know that yeah, it's actually like a little oven and you plugged it in and then it came with a little cake dishes, and then you could make them mix it up and you put it in there and it would, it would come out. 

[00:34:48] Josie: Oh my gosh, yeah. Like for kids, like an easy bake oven. 

[00:34:52] king yaa: That's exactly what it's called, it's easy bake oven. Right, exactly. So what did I like? I may not have, I don't need to buy this little box, but I do like little treats. Maybe mine might mean recreating a little tea party. Having the little treats with tea. And also, you know, tea rituals. I know that we spoke about that at some point, you know? I'm trying different types of tree trees, different types of teas. 

[00:35:18] Josie: And trees. 

[00:35:19] king yaa: And trees, yes, exactly. And finding if, you know, if you don't live anywhere that you can go out into a picnic and have that kind of a setting. Maybe putting a blanket on the floor and finding a bit of sunlight and sitting there and reading, you know.

[00:35:34] I used to love to read, you know, these things are. I believe that we all can find little things that we all enjoyed at some point that we've not felt. That we could make it a priority and bring it into our life now. Like we don't need to just be reading social justice books.

[00:35:57] We can read something to escape. We can read, I just finished reading Pet. I can't remember what the author's name is. 

[00:36:05] Josie: Yes, I know what book you're talking about. 

[00:36:08] king yaa: Yeah. That's kind of slipped me. Right. But Maybe also reading, you know, cuz that is a book that falls under youth, Young adults.

[00:36:18] Right. So like maybe reading some books that are, you know, for young adults, you know? Yes. Whatever it is, if it's romance, whatever it is that you're into. But carving those moments out to just do these things, like, just little small things. And when you notice that you kind of like either put them into your day or if you, some people have like a journal of gratitude.

[00:36:44] You could use gratitude, but also what if you put it, you name as pleasure. And then even if you are painting your nails, that you're sitting there and you're painting your nails and it is from a playful place because it is paint. Right. You know, it is grooming your body or, or not even grooming.

[00:37:03] Grooming sounds like something you have to do, like showering. But it is decorating, adorning, your body. And also it could be like necklaces and rings. I love rings. What are you doing to just play with your body? And of course in that there's also the in imitation of other ways that you can play with your body that might be a little bit more sexual and sensual.

[00:37:27] Right. But doing it with intention and knowing that you're like, ah, I gave this to myself today. I gifted this to myself today. This was a gift to myself for this day. I think it's a beautiful, beautiful act, and a beautiful practice.

[00:37:50] And then when we recognize that there's been days where we haven't come back to it without guilt. Because I feel like, one of the things I like, not like to do, I don't like to do it, but one of the things that I do is name white supremacy. And in white supremacy we think of perfectionism or consistency or guilt and shame.

[00:38:13] And when you remove that, okay, so I haven't done it in a few days. Okay. Here I am today. And you remove anything that might tarnish or, or make this not what it is like it is supposed to be for pleasure. You can't be having pleasure when you're making yourself feel bad for the days that you haven't done it, or you think that you've done it wrong if you're always doing it right.

[00:38:33] If you're coming from that place, there's no way to do it wrong. I'm always doing it right. I'm doing it for me. Maybe it might mean, with myself it might include other people. But it's always for me. And in it recognizing that I deserve it. I don't need to earn it, I just deserve it.

[00:38:55] Josie: Oh, those are such good points, because I think people automatically start to feel like, Okay, here's a practice I need to be doing it. If I fail, then it's another thing I've failed. And what if I get off track? 

[00:39:10] Yeah, totally. And also that it's, something that came to my mind as you were talking was like, there is that part of us as a kid that really naturally went to these things that gave us pleasure, including like self body exploration around that age. That was also part of that pleasure piece that that gets eventually judged and kind of conditioned out of us. So that's, I thought that was really interesting that you brought that up. That makes sense. 

[00:39:49] king yaa: Yeah, and you're right. I think that that is also one thing that we can tap into, especially since going back to being wrong and everything about us and our existence being wrong. What would it feel like to, even as you're lying in bed or in the shower to just be touching yourself, and I don't even mean in a sexual way, that you're not trying to be aroused.

[00:40:13] But just touching your, you know, I mean, normally. I like, as I'm sitting here, I'm also just rubbing the hair on my legs cause it's brand new to me. 

[00:40:21] Josie: Yeah. Nice. 

[00:40:22] king yaa: And my new developments, and it's hard to get used to and I find it weird, but also I'm also trying to get to know this new body that I'm in.

[00:40:30] And so I do, I stroke my hair. I normally, now I find myself constantly stroking my facial hair. And it's me having a relationship with myself, it is me. I'm thinking about my young self inside of there going, What the hell is this on your face? How did this happen? 

[00:40:50] And I'm like, I also dunno. I just took like a few injections and these weird and odd things are happening, but here we are. Learning this new body that when I was, you know, five, six, I would never in my life, you know, would've imagined. 

[00:41:14] But here I am with the same curiosity as that five or six year old, you know, touching my body and, and getting to know this weird, aging, changing in all different ways, body without judgment. With like zero judgment. The only thing I could say is, this is weird. But it's all right. You know? Cause kids do that, right? They'll say, This is weird. And they totally, that's as much of a judgment, but they continue on.

[00:41:39] There's no bad or wrong, or bad or good, whatever. It's just, Oh, this is different. And that's it. And that's with so many parts of my body, I'm just, taking that moment. I would love to hear being spaces where people are speaking about their body more from a place of curiosity, rather than wronging it. 

[00:42:01] And, and for me, I always come back to, do you know that that's white supremacy? Name that right there that you're wronging your body, you are feeding into, you're contributing to white supremacy. Same thing that we're talking about that needs to be dismantled.

[00:42:18] Those thoughts are feeding that beast. When we go out there and we think we need to go buy these products or have these, you know, do these things. It's white supremacy. 

[00:42:29] Josie: Yeah, I really appreciate you naming that because that's helped me a lot to approach my body with more curiosity instead of, and seeing when that judgment comes up, like where did that judgment come from, right? It didn't come from me. Ugh, yeah. So important. Well that answers my next question, which was gonna be like, how do people stay committed to this practice every day? But that's white supremacy.

[00:43:04] king yaa: That is it, right. Every single day? You know, Maybe not every day. 

[00:43:08] Josie: Yeah, exactly. I love it. Oh good. And I love too what you said about Black and brown people having childhoods that were too short. Yeah, I think that's such a good point. 

[00:43:22] king yaa: Most definitely. I know that in my time in Cape Town, that I lived by the beach. That was one of my self-care necessities. I was as a non-negotiable that I needed to live by the beach. I needed to go to sleep hearing the waves. And when I would be driving along the coast, going into the city at around 11 o'clock, you'd see all these kites, that visual I bring of kite surfing.

[00:43:47] You'd see all these beautiful kites up in the sky. And when you're along the coast, you're seeing that this like all these old white men are out there playing all day. And I don't mean old and retired, I just mean like they're playing and when do you get to see Black men? When this was, That's where I was in Cape Town.

[00:44:05] Black men out there playing at 11 o'clock in the day. You know, And there was not like one or two kites. I'm talking about a gazillion people who are out there, playing in the middle of the fucking day. And while they're out there playing, knowing that there are Black minions in their workplaces, you know, in their businesses and companies keeping it going, who they are calling every single day lazy. They will use that word over and over again and call Black bodies lazy.

[00:44:33] Meanwhile, they're out there playing. So value systems, whatever. But also who gets to claim and who gets to play and who doesn't. I mean, obviously Black bodies need to feed their families and they don't have the time. But for those of us who can, I'm not even saying just to even do it for our ancestors who didn't get to play. 

[00:44:56] And if we're doing it for our younger selves, but also for all the Black people and Black and brown people who today today are not able to play. 

[00:45:05] Josie: So something that I talk about a lot is how to access more of the essence of who you are, and that actually gives you more access to your creative power or your fertile potentia in Chinese medicine. So I talk about that a lot, and I ask a lot of my guests if they have any practices in place that allows them to connect with their essence, or their whole self of who they are. I imagine this pleasure activism practice does that for you? 

[00:45:34] king yaa: Yeah, definitely. That is what I would say because I think that when we are meant to shut down, especially our childhood parts of ourselves, our playful parts of ourselves. We are cutting off part of our essence. When we believe that the only time that we're meant to write, it is for to submit a paper for school or to submit a paper or, I don't know, like a policy for work, whatever it is that we're writing.

[00:45:58] That it is for the consumption for somebody else's, whatever it is, right? It is for our capitalism, right? When we write for ourselves, when we have a little journal book, and we, I mean, I love colors, so I spend a lot of money on markers. So that when I look at my words, I'm not just seeing my words of whatever it is that I'm writing about, but they look beautiful. 

[00:46:20] I remember when I was younger, when I was in grade school, that was what we all did. We all had you know what I mean? And then you had to underline in blue. Like we had this whole way that we wanted our things to look pretty. And I still want everything around me to look pretty.

[00:46:37] I think that when we are so caught up with survival then we lose so many parts of ourselves. And like you said, it is essence, right. And that it is a reclaiming of that essence and our playfulness and because those are parts of us that if you allow it. If you allow systems, there's so many systems that are oppressing us if we allow them to.

[00:47:02] It is like cutting down a tree. And then not even just cutting down a tree, then it's also then now tearing out the roots and cutting them all up. There's nothing to keep us grounded. There's nothing to, for us to flourish. There's no blossoming, we're losing so much.

[00:47:21] But when we have these moments of, like, for me, Using color or, I like clothes. I like food, right? I'm feeding so many bits of parts of my life. I'm keeping them alive, and I'm feeding them and they're feeling nourished. And they're feeling seen. And it allows me to be in certain spaces and to be in relationships and to also do that, to say what it is that I need.

[00:47:47] Right. So I continue to flourish, right? I can name the things when I go to doctors, I can say, This is what I need. And this is how I want it to go. Right? Rather than, you know, going in there as like a dead beat, I don't even know how to put it. I'm allowing people to do things to me.

[00:48:03] I'm like, no, there's an invitation for you to be a part of my team. And this is what I need, right. And being able to see where something is not feeding you and be able to turn away from it. You know, and we may not have access to that in all of our spaces. Being able to turn away from something where sometimes we're just desperate.

[00:48:21] And I understand that too. But what happens when we at least are honest with ourselves and know, Okay, we can also soothe ourself afterwards and go, I know that that did not turn out the way that we wanted it to. But here's a bowl of ice cream, is to sit here for a moment, or let's call a friend.

[00:48:36] And it's life and whine about it. Cause that's at least recognizing and not pushing it down. Right? Because all of our parts of ourselves deserve light. And to be seen and to be, Yeah. To be acknowledged. Even when it is a shitty something. Yeah, 

[00:48:56] Josie: Yeah, yeah. Totally. And you're right, that like connecting with your essence. Really gives you that ability to be really clear to ask for what you need and to seek out those, those spaces and people. Absolutely. Respect your essence. Yeah, I love that. Well, king, how can people find you and support you online and sign up for all your offerings and all the things?

[00:49:26] king yaa: Most definitely. One is to get on my email list, we can go to my website at www.kingyaa.co.za which is what we use in South Africa. I haven't changed it. I'm still holding onto it. So it's kingyaa.co.za, and also on Instagram. I am @queerbirthworker. And that is a great way to follow my, whatever I'm talking about.

[00:49:54] And I do give a lot of free education on Instagram. And if you have my email list, then you'll be the first to know whenever it is that I'm offering something. 

[00:50:04] Josie: Perfect, and I'll link to all those links in the show notes and on my website for folks who wanna click directly to those things. 

[00:50:11] king yaa: Thank you so much.

[00:50:13] Josie: All right. Thank you so much for being here, king. It was such an honor to have you. I really appreciate your time and your energy. 

[00:50:20] king yaa: It was great having the conversation with you. Thank you.

[00:50:27] Josie: Thanks for listening to the Intersectional Fertility podcast. To get customized fertility recommendations based on your whole self fertility method element, join my mailing list at intersectionalfertility.com and get immediate access to my two minute quiz. 

[00:50:44] king yaa: If you like the show and wanna hear more, tap subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and please leave us a review. It really, truly, helps. The Intersectional Fertility Podcast is hosted by me, Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier, and produced by For the Love Media with Original Music by Jen Korte.

All content offered through The Intersectional Fertility Podcast is created for informational purposes only, it is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.