Episode 14 - The Journey to Fertile

In this episode, Josie sits down with their partner Melissa to discuss their upcoming program, Fertile. This program supports a fertile environment in the body and specifically supports folks with wombs who are queer, trans, and non-binary. Grab a cup of tea and enjoy this intimate, fun, and playful conversation.

[ID: Text reads The Intersectional Fertility Podcast Episode 14, on an orange background with two blue and red butterflies.]

Throughout their years as a Licensed Acupuncturist, Josie has offered a myriad of programs geared towards different people in varying stages of life. Josie and Melissa talk about why Fertile is different from past programs, which folks across different stages of pregnancy and fertility might glean the most from the program, and practical ways to self-assess your own fertile environment.

Take the Whole Self Fertility Method™ Element Quiz and discover customized fertility recommendations that you can implement immediately.

Learn more about and sign up for Fertile here. This 5-week program is a queer, trans, and non-binary centered online program for people with wombs to reclaim power over their fertility journey and conceive using the Whole Self Fertility Method™.

Episode transcript:

Disclaimer: This is an automatically generated transcript edited to be more readable. It may not be 100% accurate.

Josie (00:00): I'm Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier and this is the Intersectional Fertility Podcast where ideas and identities intersect to deepen our understanding of fertility and ultimately our whole selves.

Today, I'm bringing back a very special guest. My partner, Melissa. We are going to turn the tables and she's going to interview me today about my online program Fertile. So you can just sit back and relax and settle in and enjoy the conversation.

Josie (00:51): All right. 

Melissa: All right. 

Josie: Welcome back to the podcast, babe. 

Melissa: Thank you. So glad to be invited back. 

Josie: How does it feel to be a fan favorite? 

Melissa (01:00): I am humbled to be referred to as a fan favorite. I wonder if people actually say that or that's,

Josie: People are actually saying that, they are. 

Melissa: People said that, okay. 

Josie: It's mostly people we know.

Melissa (01:19): I'll take it. No, I'm very excited to be back. I'm excited to talk to you about Fertile. I know it's something you've been working on and excited to get out there. And there's a lot that I probably don't know too. Just go in your little office and,

Josie: Yeah, yeah. I disappear and you have no idea what I'm doing. Yeah.

Melissa (01:40): Yeah. So do you wanna talk a little bit about what Fertile is, and who is it for? 

Josie: Yeah. So Fertile is an online program to support folks with wombs who are queer, trans, and non-binary to conceive. So that's the main gist of it. It's a five week program and it can be accessed online from anywhere.

Melissa (02:10): So you could do it from your porch, you could do it from your bedroom. 

Josie: Yeah. From a pool maybe. 

Melissa: Yeah. I'm trying to think of like quarantine friendly places. 

Josie: Oh yeah, a cafe that's outside. 

Melissa: Yeah, with your mask on.

Josie: With your mask on now. Yeah. 

Melissa (02:27): Okay. So when you first finished acupuncture school, you were treating people off the street.

Josie: Yeah. 

Melissa: Just any, any person who wandered in. 

Josie: Yeah. 

Melissa (02:37): But how did you end up specializing in fertility acupuncture?

Josie (02:42): Yeah. That's such a good question. I ended up having my own fertility struggles, so I became pregnant and then lost that pregnancy. And then decided that I really wanted to be pregnant and tried. You know, tried it again, thinking it would be easy since I got pregnant kind of by surprise the first time. 

And it was not easy. It took about a year and I actually realized way later that I was dealing with a pretty severe case of endometriosis. So what happened was, you know, while I was trying to get pregnant again, I really did tons of research and studying and, you know, figuring out how to use the Chinese medicine tools that were available to me to increase my fertility. I made some dietary changes and took supplements and things like that. 

(03:37) So I made a lot of changes and then was able to get pregnant and, you know, carry the baby to full term and, what happened was when I was 27 weeks pregnant with my oldest daughter, who's now nine years old. I had an emergency open abdominal surgery to remove my left ovary and my left fallopian tube, because there had been an endometrioma, which is like a blood filled cyst that erupted on my left ovary while I was pregnant.

Melissa (04:13): Wow. 

Josie: It was wild and yeah, it was a really big deal to do an open abdominal surgery on someone who was 27 weeks pregnant. So I was kind of like, well known in the hospital. 

Melissa: You were hospital famous. 

Josie: I was hospital famous. Folks were like, is, you know, back then my pronouns were she/her, so there was like, "is she gonna make it?" You know. 

Melissa: That's terrifying.

Josie: It was terrifying. 

Melissa: I'm like joking. But also, I don't think I ever wanna be hospital famous.

Josie (04:43): I know, right? Nobody wants to be hospital famous. And so, you know, the NICU was ready to receive Izzy and, you know, very prematurely and, you know, they were like ready and waiting to- cause they thought that the surgery would trigger an early delivery.

So anyway, after, you know, the surgery went really well and afterwards, the surgeon was very experienced. He was an old guy. I think he was in his, he was definitely near retirement. Maybe he was working like past his retirement, I don't know. But he was very experienced and he said it was one of the worst cases of endometriosis he had ever seen.

(05:23) And that it was a miracle that I was able to get pregnant in the first place. So I was like, in a way it was really validating because I was like, well, whatever I did worked. It was like, I didn't realize like what a steep hill I was climbing to try to get pregnant. So after that is when I made Fertile, the first iteration of Fertile.

So I put everything basically that I did to get pregnant into a program, and made it into program. And yeah, the surgeon also told me afterwards that my daughter, which makes a lot of sense now knowing her, was kicking him the whole time to stay out. 

Melissa (06:04): It was on brand. 

Josie: Yeah. Isn't it? It's like, so makes so much sense knowing her now, right. That she was like, just stood her ground and stayed in my belly and stayed till full term. And then I delivered her. 

Melissa: Right.

Josie: Past her due date, so. 

Melissa: Wow. 

Josie (06:19): It was amazing. Yeah, and then my second pregnancy, I was able to get pregnant, you know, relatively easily, because I think I had, you know, kinda paved the way. I did a lot of work with improving my fertility and even with one ovary and one fallopian tube I was able to do it.

Melissa: Right. It's amazing. 

Josie: Yeah, it was pretty cool. Yeah. So that's where my focus on fertility came from. 

Melissa (06:46): I know you've done programs in the past, so how did those programs evolve into Fertile? 

Josie: Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, I've done a ton of, I've offered a ton of online programs in the past. I think my first one was in 2009 maybe. And it was called "The Only Nutrition Program You'll Ever Need." 

Melissa: Catchy. 

Josie: Isn't that a good title? 

Melissa: Yeah. 

Josie (07:11): So that was really fun to do that, but it was very, it was really open ended, like a big umbrella. It was just like nutrition, you know. So yeah, and then I moved on from there to focus, more on offering programs around reproductive health.

So I had a program called Fertile Woman that I ran for years. That was all about, you know, supporting women, cis women, how to conceive. And then I also had a program called Pregnant Woman, so it supported cis women through pregnancy. And then a program called Golden Woman that supported cis women through menopause, perimenopause and menopause. 

And then I had a program called Peaceful Woman. This was my branding. If you can't tell, it was like, 

Melissa (08:02): Yeah, there's a, there seems to be a theme. 

Josie: There was a theme. Everything was geared towards women. 

Melissa: It's like everything you could possibly need as a woman. 

Josie (08:09): Yeah. So then I had one called Peaceful Woman that was all about like stress and anxiety relief. So a few years ago you know, as I came out and then, as I came out you know, queer first and then as non-binary I just re- you know, was really rethinking my whole business and my whole, you know, who I was serving and I changed my whole practice to not just women's health, but to serve queer, trans, and non-binary folks.

(08:46) And to really change it, to be reproductive health instead of women's health. So yeah, I've been doing a lot of studying and interviewing you know, queer folks as to what they need. I've really changed the direction of my private practice. So, so I've been kind of redoing my whole online fertility program to support this new direction. 

Melissa (09:15): Mm-hmm, and you mentioned your practice, so what expertise, knowledge, experience has informed the content that you're creating in Fertile? 

Josie (09:30): Yeah. So I've been an acupuncturist for 13 years. So I started in 2008, which seems like a long time ago. 

Melissa: I don't wanna tell you where I was in 2008.

Josie: You were a Zygote. 

Melissa: Not quite, but. 

Josie: There's a slight age difference between us. 

Melissa: Yeah, I think I was using a shotski somewhere around a college campus. 

Josie: What's a shotski? 

Melissa: It's like a ski that has multiple shot glasses. 

Josie: Oh my God. 

Melissa: So you and your four closest buddies can, yeah. 

Josie: That is funny. Oh, my God. Yeah. So I was just outta grad.

Melissa: I was doing that. 

Josie (10:10): I was starting my career. Yeah, like a real adult. That was funny to think about. Yeah, I started my career in the recession, which was fun. So 2008, when everything crashed, I was like, let's open a private practice and see how that goes. So I didn't know any different, which was kind of nice.

But anyway, yeah. So I've been in practice since then. And I focused initially, just most acupuncturists I think, especially out of school, just focus on everything. Because we're really trained as like general practitioner, like family medicine, basically. So I would treat whatever, you know, whoever wanted to come in for acupuncture, I would treat them.

Melissa: Right. 

Josie (10:55): Yeah. It was like a very broad umbrella. And then I started to kind of specialize more in like menstrual cycle stuff because I was good at it. And I had a knack for it and people would get good results from it. And I myself had a lot of menstrual issues, so I knew. You know, those were the things that I kept studying.

Because as acupuncturists to keep our license, we have to keep taking courses and get credit. And, you know, every four years we have to kind of update all our credentials and everything. So that was the direction I kept going to study more. You know about hormone balance and you know, conceiving and pregnancy and post, you know, post pregnancy support, postpartum support, that's the word postpartum.

(11:46) And yeah, so then I started focusing more on reproductive health and, and then a few years ago, I think about four years ago now, I, I ended up partnering with a fertility clinic here in Colorado. That has been wonderful. What I do is they send their patients to me who are undergoing IVF, in the IVF process and they recommend they highly recommend acupuncture.

They almost make it mandatory for their patients to do acupuncture, which is so cool. And they come to see me in the weeks leading up to their frozen embryo transfer, sometimes fresh embryo, embryo transfers. And I meet them on the day of their transfer at the fertility clinic. They have acupuncture rooms in the basement and I go do their before and after acupuncture, before their transfer and after their transfer.

(12:40) So it's been really special. It's like, it's really become my favorite part of the process is to like, Be there on the day of their transfer. 

Melissa: Mm-hmm 

Josie: After having been with them, you know, in the many weeks leading up to it. So that feels really special. 

Melissa (12:54): Yeah. And it seems like that gives you a good perspective on what the process can look like for folks, whether they're you know, needing some outside assistance to get pregnant or if they're a queer couple who obviously needs some outside assistance or may need some outside assistance.

Josie: Right. Yeah, it's been cool to work with a fertility clinic for that reason is because a lot of queer folks they're, you know, the clinic I work with is pretty open to the, their queer community. And you know, so it feels good to have that experience because that is a big population that goes, you know, that they work with, it's been really good.

Melissa (13:36): Yeah. So if you are, if you're a queer person, who's thinking they might want to conceive, but maybe doesn't have a "you" that they could go see for acupuncture. What gaps does Fertile, or could Fertile fill? In terms of a person who wants to get ready for that process. 

Josie: Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's such a good question. That's such a good question. Thanks for asking. 

Melissa: It just came to me. 

Josie (14:08): Yeah, it can fill a lot of gaps because acupuncture and Chinese medicine is a completely different set of tools than Western medicine, and in that it can help to improve the fertile environment and the body so that the pregnancy, so that the conception and the pregnancy goes more smoothly and is healthier and has better outcomes.

So, yeah, Western medicine doesn't really have tools for that. So, yeah. So Fertile, you know, I walk you through basically the Whole Self Fertility Method, which is a method I developed that takes into account all the different organ systems in the body and how they affect fertility and how you can bring those back into balance by using Chinese medicine and ancient medicine type.

(14:59) You know, practices that you can do at home, you know, based on like dietary recommendations and also lifestyle recommendations and certain practices and stuff. So there's actually so much you can do without needles. Without acupuncture. 

Melissa: That's cool. Yeah, because I imagine some folks might not have access to acupuncture. So that's cool that it's like, you're not doomed if you can't. 

Josie: Yeah, no, you're not doomed. 

Melissa: There's actually a lot that is accessible. You know, with, or without acupuncture. 

Josie (15:31): So true. Which is why I started doing my online programs in the first place. Cause I started realizing actually there's so much more you can do besides acupuncture and I don't have enough time to go through all of that with each patient during our acupuncture visits. So that was really what, like first inspired me to create online programs cause I was like, I just need to be able to tell people this information and we ran outta time, you know, during their session, so yeah.

Melissa (15:58): Right. So if you're going to, if you're considering conceiving or considering, and doing Fertile, at what point in that process would you recommend doing the program? Is it like, as you're trying to do both? Should you do like a year ahead of time? Is there like, a good timeframe for taking a program like Fertile? 

Josie (16:26): Yeah. That's a really good question. You can really take it at any point, you know, during the fertility process, but I think there is a sweet spot where, and it also depends if you're using your own eggs. Or if you're not. 

So if you are using your own eggs it takes like three to four months and sometimes longer for an egg to fully mature. And so the quality of your egg is reflective of the previous like three to four months at least. So you really have a lot of influence on the quality of your egg, like three to six months before you do an egg retrieval.

(17:07) So that's a good sweet spot for like, trying to like, have the most amount of influence on your egg quality. But if you're not using your own eggs, then you know, what you really wanna be focusing on is improving the fertile environment in your in the womb or in the uterus itself. So, you know, that can take, you know, who knows, you know, how long that takes really.

There's not really like a hard and fast rule about that. But I tend to think You know, a similar timeframe is good to make really significant changes. Like just in my clinical experience. I notice when I work with patients that, you know, we see the most dramatic changes after like three cycles, after like three menstrual cycles. That's kind of gives the body enough time to kind of like you know, assimilate the changes that they've made.

Melissa: Right. 

Josie (18:07): So usually for some, you know, a lot of folks that's about three months, you know, depending on the length of their cycle, like three to four months. So, yeah, I think within like three to six months before you're planning to conceive is a good sweet spot, but I know that a lot of folks don't think about. You know, this kind of stuff until they're like much closer. 

Melissa: Yeah. It's human nature. 

Josie (18:28): Yeah. It's like, oh shit. I wanna get pregnant in like next week. Like what should I do? Yeah. Like a lot of people come to me and they're like, I I'm having my transfer on Friday. Like what can I do? And I'm like, oh my God. Okay.

Here's, you know, the down and dirty, quick and dirty of what to do. So, you know, any point is gonna help, but I think maybe a concern that comes up for folks, especially an online format is like, what if they get pregnant? You know, like what if they're about to have, you know, a transfer or, you know, something where it's like, they're midway through the fertility program and then they're pregnant already.

So like, so I wanna address that too and say that actually all this info is really good for sustaining a healthy pregnancy, as well. So the info is still very relevant, to a pregnant person. 

Melissa (19:22): Yeah. That makes sense. Is there a way to, self-assess your fertile environment? 

Josie: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Like that's a good question. 

Melissa: For me, as you're saying that, I'm just like, I wonder how my fertile environment is. Yeah. I don't plan to have children ever, but I'm wondering, 

Josie: How do you know?

Melissa: How do I know? Like, does my fertile environment suck? Is it like a C minus? You know, where, where, where do we stand?

Josie: Yeah, what's your grade?

Melissa (19:51): And then, you know, and then how would you try, or how would you notice if some of these lifestyle changes that you're making are increasing your fertile environment? 

Josie: Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's such a good question. Yeah, I think your cycle is one of the best markers indicators of your fertile environment. So it's like a really strong indicator of like, what's what's going on with your fertility.

So what we're looking for, and people are usually blown away when I tell them this list of like what a period should be, cause usually for a lot of folks it's not. But what we're looking for is like fresh red blood. That's like a good, fresh red blood color. Not like, not like going towards brown or purple or pink.

(20:39) You know, just like that fresh, bright red blood we wanna be ideally having no clots or no, stringiness just like a fresh texture, you know, like a smooth texture of blood. Also no cramping. Or low back pain. So all those can be indicators that there's some, what we call stagnation in Chinese medicine, which can affect fertility.

You know, it should be relatively, a relatively non-event when your period comes, it should be kind of like, no fanfare at all just like, oh my period's here. You know, the regularity of it is important. So not so much that it needs to be like exactly 28 days, but that your period itself is you know, if you tend to have like 29 day or 32 day cycles or whatever your cycle is, 

Melissa (21:34): It's that number of days every month, roughly.

Josie: it's that number every time. Yeah, exactly. Like how consistent that is shows us, you know, is a good marker. What else? Yeah. And then also having adequate follicular phases and adequate luteal phases. So you have, in order to conceive, you know, if you're using your own eggs, the eggs have to have the right amount of time, enough time to fully mature.

(22:07) So that luteal phase, the time after you menstruate to ovulation is called your luteal phase, or I'm sorry, follicular. And if there's not enough time for that egg to fully mature before it's released. Then there's a, that can be a problem for fertility. So we need to like lengthen that follicular phase. So if the egg is like spit out before it's ready, 

Melissa: right.

Josie: then a lot of times that will not take. 

Melissa: Gotcha. 

Josie: Like that egg won't be able to be fertilized. 

Melissa (22:38): And is that pretty unique to the individual or is there a certain length of the follicular phase that's ideal? 

Josie: Yeah. That's a good question. I think it needs to be, I don't know exactly. So I'll have to look that up, but I think it needs to be, at least, I think it needs to be at least 10 days. Or maybe 12. 

Melissa: Okay. Yeah. And the first day in Western medicine is the day you start your period. 

Josie: Right.

Melissa: So basically 10 days after your period starts is like the minimum, the minimum for like spitting out your egg. 

Josie: Yes. Exactly. So yeah, the first day of your cycle is the first day of fresh red blood flow.

Melissa: Okay. 

Josie (23:21): So even if you spot have spotting or anything don't count that as your day one. Wait to count your day one as the first day of fresh red blood flow. And some people do have like a time cutoff. So if the fresh red blood flow starts like after 6:00 PM or 8:00 PM or 9:00 PM.

Some people have like certain time cutoffs and they count it the next day as their day one. So it's good to have like a time cutoff and a rule and just use that rule for yourself, every single cycle so that, you know. 

Melissa: So you decide the time? 

Josie: You decide the time. Yeah. 

Melissa: Okay. 2:37. 

Josie: Yeah, after 5:60, no, there's no sixties of time.

Melissa: Yeah. That's interesting. I didn't know that. 

Josie (24:16): Yeah. So then after, yeah, so after day one, then I believe it's 10 days, but probably a better bet would be 12 as a minimum to have that egg fully developed. Before it ovulates. Yeah, and then luteal phase. I know, I think is it needs to be at least 10 days. 

Melissa: Okay. 

Josie: So there needs to be at least 10 days for that egg to be able to you know, get nestled in to the uterine lining and start to grow there, so if there's a, you know, if there's a threat of the period starting too soon, then it's like, it's not enough time for that conception to happen. 

Melissa: Right, right. Okay. 

Josie (24:57): So yeah. So short cycles are tricky because you don't know if they're short because it's a short follicular phase or if they're short, cause the luteal phase is short. So that's where tracking your cycle comes in. Really handy to know what's going on.

Melissa: Right, okay. Yeah and I'm sure you have some ideas on how folks can track their cycle. 

Josie: Yeah. 

Melissa: And maybe that's a part of Fertile, I don't know. 

Josie (25:22): Yeah, so it's something that used to be a part of my online fertility program, and I'm actually kind of figuring out whether or not to include that in this round or not.

But what I am gonna do is, in a future episode is bring on a fertility awareness method instructor who can walk folks through how to track their cycle. 

Melissa: Cool, awesome. 

Josie: There's a lot of detail. 

Melissa (25:45): Yeah, cause as a queer person, I really don't pay attention to my cycle. I've become more interested in it recently from like a sports performance point of view. So I literally could not tell you what day I'm on. You know, I don't know what the signs are when I'm entering like a new phase or not. So yeah, and it's just never been, it hasn't been a factor in a really long time. 

Josie: Yeah, exactly. 

Melissa: A new thing I need to worry about or pay attention to.

Josie (26:19): Yes. That's the, what I keep hearing all the time from queer folks is that they just have no reason to track it. Until now. 

Melissa: Yeah, but it sounds like there are several things that folks can pay attention to. To assess like, okay, where like, is this, do I need to work on my fertility? Or am I in a pretty good place?

Josie: Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I would argue too, that even if you are in a pretty good place, that it's still a good idea to optimize it, to make it even better. 

Melissa: Love an optimization. 

Josie: I know you do. 

Melissa (26:54): Why would you say that? 

Josie: Just to increase the odds of the pregnancy holding, of the conception working.

Melissa: Right, Okay. 

Josie (27:04): Yeah. Cause even when things are looking good, I mean, there's just so many factors to take into account with genetics and, you know what genes are encouraged or not encouraged to turn on, you know, based on the environment. It just gets, so, you know, if there's any kind of blood clotting factors or you know, anything else at play, you just wanna give it your best, the best opportunity to work especially the first time. 

Melissa (27:36): Totally. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about who Fertile is for. So I mean, I think the obvious answer is folks who are trying to conceive but you know, would Fertile be helpful to someone like me who just, you know, wants to be a happy, healthy person.

Josie: Mm-hmm, Yeah. 

Melissa: And you know, I know you've mentioned that there are other practitioners that you've met at the conception center or reached out online who, you know, want to learn more like for fertility, acupuncture is not their specialty. But they wanna learn more.

Josie: Right, yeah. 

Melissa (28:17): So are you, you know, what audiences do you have in mind for this program?

Josie: Yeah, that's such a good question. I think there's lots of different circles who would benefit from Fertile. And I always forget about the folks who like you, who are just wanting to just like be you know, 

Melissa: Our cycles are a mystery. 

Josie: But like, but you're interested in just being healthier. Like overall in that having a more in balance, healthier fertile environment in your body actually means that you're also just healthier.

Melissa (28:51): Well, and it's interesting, like just, you brought up, you know, like you should not have cramps or you know, chest tenderness or anything. And I think that our expectation is that we will. 

And so we don't see it as like one, something that we can address or mitigate in some way. And, yeah. So I mean, that's something I know I've taken for granted until you were like, it doesn't have to be this way. 

Josie (29:22): Yeah. That's such a good point. Yes. I think it's absolutely for folks who just want to improve their fertility. Their fertile health not necessarily to conceive.

I would say the one thing that it's, that you have to be in, in this program is queer. Queer, you know, trans or non-binary is what this program is designed for and centers, you know, folks with that identity. And then, you know, Other than that, you know, someone who's interested in improving their fertile health, someone who's interested in conceiving, fellow healthcare practitioners are welcome to join and learn more about how to better support their queer trans and non-binary patients and clients who are trying to conceive. Yeah. I mean, if someone really wants to be in the program they're welcome. 

Melissa: Yeah, you'll let 'em in. 

Josie: I'll let 'em in. 

Melissa (30:23): How nice of you. Okay and we're based in the US, is your, is the program open to folks and other parts of the world? 

Josie (30:33): Yeah, I mean, it definitely is, I would just say there's a caveat there with some of the resources will be based, you know, or US centered, like for example, some of the bonus resources are like, you know, a list of queer trans non-binary and people of color inclusive practitioners. So that might be more US based. And then like a timeline, one of the other like bonus resources that you get in Fertile is a timeline and price estimates of retrieval, embryo transfer, IUI, ICI, things like that.

So I think a lot of those prices will probably be based in the US. You know, price points. And then, but other than that, I think that everything else would be pretty applicable, no matter where in the world you are. 

Melissa (31:27): Right, okay. And if I were considering doing this program, can I pay you in love bucks or, you know, 

Josie: What currencies do I accept?

Melissa: Yeah. Are there pricing tiers or what, how can, what do folks need to plan for? To do your program? 

Josie: For those of you who don't know what love bucks are. it's our currency that Melissa and I use instead of paying each other. 

Melissa: It's yeah, it's clearly a joke. it's our IOU and in the form of love, 

Josie: You can take this program with love bucks. 

Melissa: Love bucks.

Josie (32:13): Yes. Great question. I have a sliding scale available. Some people are familiar with this sliding scale, cause it's been kind of shared amongst, you know, certain providers and practitioners and stuff. It's called the green bottle sliding scale. So there's four different price points that I offer.

So the main price point, which would be the price of the program for those who can afford it, is $1,400, and that is for everything. And then the next tier is $1,050. So a thousand fifty, the next tier is $700. And then the other tier is $350. So those are the four price points. And there's really clear criteria on the website of how to distinguish which tier you're in, based on certain income, you know, qualifications and things like that. 

Melissa (33:11): Okay. So it's like honor system. You read a description of the four tiers, figure out which tier applies to you. 

Josie: Exactly. And I've, I've signed up for other programs using this green bottle method and to me it feels so clear and relaxing to like sign up for it because I read through the tiers and I'm like, oh, that's clearly the one I'm.

(33:32) Like, it's like, there's no question. I'm like, Ooh, am I this one? Or this one? It's like, no, I'm firmly in this one. So I think it's pretty clear. Like when folks read it, they'll be like, oh, that's where I'm at. Which is what I like about it. And then I also have a scholarship option. So if the cheapest tier that went at $350 is still prohibitive for folks to join and they can then specifically people of color can then apply for a scholarship. To enter the program. So I really didn't wanna turn anyone away. So if anyone wants to have access to this program, I wanna make it work for them. 

Melissa (34:09): Cool. Yeah. And I'm assuming, well, I shouldn't assume I'll ask you. And, then do you have lifetime access to these materials? Like say, you know, you're thinking you wanna work on your fertility or conceive and, you know, Shit like a pandemic happens or, you know, other things come up in your life and you're just like, okay, I'm gonna have to change my plan. And you wanna try again in a year, will you still be able to access the course? 

Josie (34:42): That's such a good question. Yeah. So I'm just saying that people have one year access to all the course materials. Only to you know, rather than say you'll just have forever access just because things change.

Like, you know, my old programs, for example, no longer exist, but I said lifetime access. So if people wanted access to that program, I'd have to like dig up old files on my computer, which I can totally do. But so what I'm saying to folks is one year, but if you need it longer, by all means, just ask, you know, and I'll give you, you know, another year or however long you want access to it.

But there is, you know, a bunch of content that people can download to their computer, like throughout the program where they can just keep it forever. So I think like the videos and the handouts and worksheets and stuff like that are just gonna be like downloadable. So that will be yours, you know?

Melissa (35:38): Cool. And then are there any bonuses or resources? 

Josie (35:45): Yeah. So Fertile, what it is is basically the five weeks are walking through the Whole Self Fertility Method. So that's like the bulk of the program is that content from the Whole Self Fertility Method which walks you through each organ system and how to balance each organ system in order to improve your fertility. 

So if folks wanna learn the nitty gritty details on the Whole Self Fertility Method, I did a recent podcast episode all about that. So folks can go back and listen to that episode. So in addition to the Whole Self Fertility Method, then folks also get bonus resources.

(36:27) So there's a bunch of how-to's. So how to prepare for retrieval, how to prepare for IUI or ICI, how to prepare for embryo transfer, and then how to track your cycle and ovulation. That'll be part of the curriculum, but it's more of a, I guess I put it more on the bonus resources, cause it doesn't tie into the Whole Self Fertility Method.

Melissa: Gotcha. 

Josie (36:50): So it'll be like a separate resource like a training and then additional bonus resources, hopefully are going to be a list of queer trans non-binary people of color, inclusive practitioners, a timeline and price estimates of retrieval, embryo transfer IUI and ICI, and then your exact traditional Chinese medicine diagnosis.

So when folks go to my website, Intersectionalfertility.com, there's a quiz you can take if you sign up for my mailing list, that you can find out your whole self fertility method element, like what element you are, and then get fertility recommendations based on that element. So this is different.

(37:32) This is actually, this would be your traditional Chinese medicine diagnosis. So it would be like more specific. So the quiz on my website is kind of more general. It's more of like a good place to start. And then the bonus resource and Fertile is more like just your actual, really specific imbalances that you've got going on.

Melissa (37:53): Gotcha. Well, I'm, I'm slightly biased, but I think this program sounds like it'll be an amazing resource for folks who wanna just become more fertile, have babies, if that's, you know their wish. And I think it's really cool that you're creating these resources for our communities and other communities. 

Josie: Thanks, babe. 

Melissa: Yeah. 

Josie: Thanks for interviewing me today. I like being interviewed. 

Melissa: Anytime. Aw, I like interviewing you.

Josie (38:36): If you want to learn more about how to give yourself the best chance of conceiving, having a healthy pregnancy and baby or babies, head over to intersectionalfertility.com/fertile, and put your name on the waiting list to be notified when Fertile registration opens. Fertile is a queer, trans, and non-binary centered five week online program for people with wombs to reclaim power over their fertility journey and conceive using the Whole Self Fertility Method.

Thanks for listening to the Intersectional Fertility podcast. To get customized fertility recommendations based on your Whole Self Fertility Method element, join my mailing list at intersectionalfertility.com and get immediate access to my two minute quiz. If you like the show and wanna hear more, tap subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, and please consider leaving us a review.

It really truly helps. The Intersectional Fertility podcast is hosted by me, Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier, and produced by For the Love Media with original music by Jen Korte.

All content offered through The Intersectional Fertility Podcast is created for informational purposes only, it is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.