Bonus Episode: Intentional Family Planning with Jordan Danielle

Jordan's back for a bonus episode, where they discuss their own process of looking forward. How does one plan for a family when taking in factors like gender affirming hormones, finances, insurance, and more? They pose their questions to Josie, who advocates for alternatives to the white, cis, hetero-normative binary ways of birth.

[ID: Headshots of Josie (@intersectionalfertility) and Jordan Danielle (@jordir0c) on a tan background. Text reads: The Intersectional Fertility Podcast Bonus Episode!]

episode transcript:

Disclaimer: This is an automatically generated transcript edited to be more readable. It may not be 100% accurate.

Josie (00:00): I'm Josie Rodriguez Boucher. And this is the intersectional fertility podcast where ideas and identities intersect to deepen our understanding of fertility and ultimately our whole selves.

Hello friend, welcome back. Today's episode is a bonus for you. It is a continuation from episode 12 with Jordan Danielle called Moving Without Self Consciousness. So if you haven't listened to that one yet, definitely go back and listen to it. Basically what happened was that Jordan and I could not stop talking, we wanted to just hang out for the rest of the day.

So we decided to just press record and keep the conversation going. So sit back and relax and settle in with something yummy to drink or eat if you'd like and enjoy the conversation with us. 

Jordan (01:14): Being a Black, trans, queer person in this world and thinking at some point of wanting to have a family of like, what needs to happen in like the process like of that? I've been, you know, thinking about, like I told you, IVF for a really long time in my life.

Probably since around 12, which is so interesting because you know, like there's all these different dynamics and things that go into it. And I've been thinking about how my hormones play into part with that. And what if, I have a partner and they wanna carry my kid and the funds and the resources and all these things of something that could just be so simple, it's so, so complicated. 

But that's like something that I, you know, would love to just like dive more into with you about and learning. I have conversations with my friends all the time about stuff like this, cuz it's something that you really have to like, think about.

And I wonder about that a lot. Like how my body is affected by the hormones that I take and like reading a lot of stuff before I even started taking hormones around like percentages of you know, like it could be, it could not be, type of thing. And like, not being able to freeze eggs because, you know, insurance doesn't take those.

Josie (02:54): Right.

Jordan (02:55): Those things. But then also insurance is very expensive. 

Josie (02:59): Yeah, totally. I was just thinking back to the earlier part of this conversation, when you were asking all those fertility questions and something that I mentioned before we hit record again, was that that an episode, a previous episode is with a guest.

Their name is Sara Ceiba Flores. And they address, I know, right. Such a great name. And they address a lot of those questions that you had. 

Jordan (03:22): Mm.

Josie (03:22): And yeah, and also that's what I'm gonna, I'm gonna address a lot of that stuff in my online program, Fertile. 

Jordan (03:29): Yeah. I'm stoked for that. 

Josie (03:31): Yeah, and it has an economic justice tool that I use for sliding scale so that, you know, anyone who wants to take it can take it.

Jordan (03:42): That's awesome. 

Josie (03:43): Yeah, so I'm excited too cuz I just, I feel like all these questions are so valid in what folks, you know, who are trans, queer, and non-binary, and people of color are all asking the same questions. And there's so little resources out there. 

Jordan (03:59): The planning is extensive. There's so much that goes into it. There's so many things that you really have to think about or like do and be. What's the word that I don't even know, just like, I don't even wanna use this word, but it's the only one that's a good candidate for this, you know, and it's not even sometimes based on, BS of other people's thoughts and perceptions on what they feel like allowing. 

Josie (04:33): Totally insurance companies and fertility clinics, and yeah. 

Jordan (04:37): It's just like, yo, I'm just trying to bring life and love. I'm just, trying to bring a life into the world. 

Josie: Yeah, totally.

Jordan (04:43): Because I think that would be cool. And I think I'd be an awesome parent.

Josie: You would! 

Jordan (04:53): Why you gotta make so hard. 

Josie (04:55): I know it's so true, I know. It's really become a process that has gatekeepers. 

Jordan (05:02): Mm-hmm, right. So the process or through the thinking of it being like, oh, well you chose to be yourself. So, you know, comes with consequences. 

Josie: Right.

Jordan (05:13): There's a consequence?

Josie (05:19): Exactly! Like I should be getting an award because I decided to be myself. 

Jordan (05:23): A whole award! Because how many people do that a day? How many people decide to be themselves a day? You know, like it's hard work to actually really be like, yo, you know what? I'm gonna just live in my truth. And like shout to the people. Like I really hold space and love for the people that cannot. 

Josie: Yeah. 

Jordan: That maybe don't want to. 

Josie: Right. 

Jordan (05:44): Like everybody does not get dealt these same cards. They do not. 

Josie (05:51): Yeah, it's so true. I know, and yeah, it's not fair. It feels unfair that that the consequence sometimes of being yourself is having more hurdles to jump over in terms of family planning.

Jordan (06:08): But isn't it so awesome to just imagine all of the ways in which that like, it could be, and knowing even from taking king yaa's class of like just the group of folks that were in that class and like everything that each person was so passionate about and being like, yo, like there's mad people out here that are thinking the same thing.

Josie (06:34): Yeah. 

Jordan (06:35): That are working and collectively doing the work. And not just the work, but their work, you know? 

Josie: Right!

Jordan (06:43): Because it's hand in hand. And I was like, yo, like it's possible. It's possible for like us to live in this non constrictive way of society. It's possible for us to have these things that like, yeah, I can have a family like this, or I can, you know, decide to do this, or I can be this and not be like, okay. And I don't know if I'll be able to see all of the ways in which it shifts, but like, I know that the people that are raising the generations beyond me or even my generation, that's like, It's tight the way, people are teaching these kids.

Josie (07:44): Yeah. Cause I mean, it's like breaking out of that, you know, white, cis, heteronormative way of thinking about everything. Which is so not only binary, but like, so compartmentalized, where it's like, "this is the only way to do it." Like, "this is how it's been done and always been done. And that's how we'll keep doing it."

And it's like, Actually, it's not how this has always been done. You, you know, you all came in and, put all these restrictions on everything and paywalls. 

Jordan (08:15): Yeah. 

Josie: On everything. 

Jordan: There's endless possibilities. 

Josie (08:18): Yeah. And that's what Sara talked about in their interview was remember in our class, they coined that term, queerception.

Jordan: Yeah, I love that. 

Josie (08:31): That's so cool, and they talked about just basically like how cool it is that queer folks can be so like, what's the word, intentional with our family planning and we actually have, we can be so creative with it and we can really you know, go outside the bounds that have been predicated already.

Jordan (08:54): Yeah, of this nuclear family unit. It works so well. 

Josie: Yeah, right?

Jordan (08:59): I laughed so hard at that. I'm reading this bell hooks book right now, and she has been talking about the nuclear family unit around just like realms of self-esteem and love and things that are rooted in that. Of how deeming black families unsuccessful at raising kids, and talking about the patriarchal system of when black men decided, or in certain times, a good handful of black men decided, or kind of got into this realm of living like the ways of the white man to try and fit and be a man. 

Other things she also talks about just like, you know, like there's all these things that's happening in this, that's rooted in this, but then also like, you know, this nuclear family that like white, cis people have like created, also was not a very stable or dynamic way of things, you know, it's just like. 

Josie (10:09): No, the only person that benefited was the white.

Jordan: Yeah.

Josie: Which is why it was created.

Jordan (10:15): Yeah. And it's so dope. It's really, really dope to see so many different family dynamics. Yeah, I think I used to think about that. Like all of the time I remember the first time I actually witnessed, on a birthing show, of two black lesbian women that were having a baby.

And I was, I don't know, I probably was like 12 or like 13. I was super into everything like kiddo related, like all of the things, all of the things. And I was like, wow. It took 12 years for me to see representation of that on a show. 13 years. Like, that can actually happen? It took me, I had to like dig in the files of things. 

Josie (11:22): Right.

Jordan: To find representation for trans-masculine black folk. 

Josie: Oh, yeah. 

Jordan (11:30): You know, I'm just like you type in, top surgery, and it pops up white, white, white. I'm just like, okay. But like, I need someone with my skin type because like it's just different, you know, their experience and all the things it's like, it's like, wow.

Josie (11:48): Yeah. 

Jordan: I don't have to dig so hard now. 

Josie (11:52): Mm. Yeah. That's awesome to hear. And probably there's a lot more that needs to happen. 

Jordan (11:59): Yeah. 

Josie: Yeah, totally. Jordan, I could sit and chat with you all day.

Jordan (12:06): I was just thinking the same thing. Just like, yo, I could keep this train moving. 

Josie (12:16): Oh, you're the best. Let's hang out again soon or chat again soon. And also if you ever want any sort of like consult fertility wise, let me know. 

Jordan (12:29): A hundred percent. It's been a pleasure. 

Josie (12:31): If you wanna learn more about how to give yourself the best chance of conceiving, having a healthy pregnancy and baby or babies, head over to intersectionalfertility.com/fertile, and put your name on the waiting list to be notified when Fertile registration opens. Fertile is a queer, trans, and non-binary centered five week online program for people with wombs to reclaim power over their fertility journey and conceive using the Whole Self Fertility Method. 

Thanks for listening to the Intersectional Fertility podcast. To get customized fertility recommendations based on your Whole Self Fertility Method element, join my mailing list at intersectionalfertility.com and get immediate access to my two minute quiz.

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All content offered through The Intersectional Fertility Podcast is created for informational purposes only, it is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.