Episode 7 - Gabby Rivera: “Solo, queer babymaking is a trip.”

Gabby Rivera, award-winning author of Juliet Takes a Breath, and host of the podcast Joy Revolution, joins Josie to talk about the challenges and joys of her solo queer babymaking journey. Plus, how do cannabis, weight, and stress affect fertility? (Hint: one of these might surprise you.)

[ID: Headshots of Josie (@intersectionalfertility) and Gabby Rivera (@quirkyrican) on a tan background. Text reads: The Intersectional Fertility Podcast Episode 07.]

Episode Transcript:

Josie: I'm Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier and this is the Intersectional Fertility Podcast, where ideas and identities intersect to deepen our understanding of fertility, and ultimately our whole selves.

Today I'm speaking with Gabby Rivera. Gabby is a Bronx born queer Puerto Rican babe on a mission to create the wildest, most fun stories ever. She's the first Latina to write for Marvel Comics, penning the solo series America, about America Chavez, a portal punching, queer, Latina powerhouse. In 2017 Gabby was named one of the top comic creators by the Sci Fi network, and one of NBC’s Pride 30 Innovators. Gabby resides on the West Coast in California, and hosts Joy Uprising, a podcast that brings together her favorite revolutionary humans to honor joy. Her debut novel Juliet Takes a Breath was a People Magazine Best Book of Fall 2019 and an Amazon Best Young Adult Book of 2019.

Gabby, welcome to the podcast.

Gabby: Hi, hello.

Josie: I am such a huge fan of you and your work. Juliet Takes a Breath is one of my favorites all time books. I love your podcast Joy Revolution, and I was so psyched to see that you're working on Season Two.

Gabby: Yes, I am super excited too, who knew we'd have Season Two. [Laughter]

Josie: So, I am going to try to keep it together today because I'm such a huge fan so I’m going to try to be cool. Deep breaths.

Gabby: Oh my gosh.

Josie: Will you share with us your pronouns and where you're located in the world?

Gabby: Sure. My name is Gabby Rivera, my pronouns are she/her, in Spanish, I like she/they pronouns. And currently I am living in Northern California. Just 10 minutes outside of Sacramento.

Josie: Nice. Cool. So, I was first introduced to you and your work by one of my closest friends from acupuncture school. Shout out to Anne, who heard your-

Gabby: Yeah Anne.

Josie: And she heard your interview on Brene Brown’s podcast and sent me the episode. And she was like, you have to listen to this. You are going to love her. And it was such a great episode.

Gabby: Yeah, that Brene interview was so wild. I wasn't familiar with her or her work. And then when I looked into who she was, I was like, oh, okay, this could be fun. And then, going on her podcast, yo, just blew up.

Josie: Totally. Yeah, it was such a great episode. I listened to it a few times. So good. If anyone has not heard it yet, definitely go listen to that one. And then you and I connected a few weeks ago, because you posted on Instagram that you were trying to conceive. And you said, “Solo queer baby-making is a trip.”

Gabby: I did, that is like my favorite phrase for it.

Josie: Yeah, totally. So, what’s it been like? Can you share a little bit about where you are in your queer fertility journey right now? And what got you to this point?

Gabby: Sure. Okay. So, I have always wanted to be a mother and a parent. I just have a soft spot for kids, for babies, teenagers. And growing up, there were times where everybody's kind of raising each other. Your baby cousins are like three and you're 13. So, you're the in-house babysitter and, I've taught pre-kindergarten. I've worked with teenagers and LGBTQ youth centers. I just feel connected to young people and children. So that's always been a thing. And for the longest time, I held on to the notion that I needed to have a partner, a wife, to have a family. And, that wasn't in the cards for me, either the relationships didn't work out or like, it just wasn't the right time. And so, I find myself now at 38 and being like, well, what am I going to do about my baby journey? This whole time, just what is the way? How am I going to make this work? And for a long time, I had a lot of guilt about like not being able to have that perfect cookie cutter lesbian family thing. Because when you do see queer families, it's always like happy smiling lesbians and gay dads with their two kids. It's similar propaganda.

Josie: On the queer side, it is similar.

Gabby: It is. So, I had to do a lot of soul-searching, Josie, in 2019. Let me tell you in 2019 I did a lot of healing. I went to Puerto Rico for the first time in 11 years and something like washed over me like this calm feeling of have your baby. Have your child. You are surrounded by enough love. You do not need a relationship. You have so many love relationships in your life. You have everything that you need to have a baby.

Josie: I love that.

Gabby: And yeah, I was like, I felt like I felt it there. I felt it in Puerto Rico. I felt very spiritually open. And so, it was like, Oh, right. Of course I am. Of course, I can do this. And so, like many of us, I came into 2020 like “I have a plan! I know what's going to happen next. Having this baby.” And then bam. Coronavirus.

Josie: Right, right.

Gabby: Literally in March, I get a letter telling me I have health insurance. And the next week, they lock it all down. So, with all of that, also like so, hospitals closed to like people unless you have like a fever Coronavirus, right, all day-to-day appointments, clinics, all of that closed, can't even go to the dentist, you know what I mean? So not just that barrier is now in my way. But I started having like this existential crisis where I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm finally ready. And then this happens. Like the world shuts down?

Josie: Totally.

Gabby: Is this the universe telling me don’t do it? Don’t you have this baby! You know that right? And then just the multitude of tragedies happening during that time with like George Floyd's murder, and just like, so many things coming together making me be like, why should I even have a baby?

Josie: Totally.

Gabby: So, I really had to sit with that part for a couple of months, most of the beginning of the pandemic being like, what am I doing? Why would I do that?

Josie: Yeah, that's a really fair question.

Gabby: And so,a year into the pandemic. I have seen so many sides of like this experience, right? Yes, so many people have passed, so many people have suffered, we are suffering together. And my girl got a new house, and my other friend just gave birth to their first baby. And people are thriving and starting their own businesses. And so, pulling it out a little bit and taking a big, big picture look. This year again, I'm like, oh, we're going to have this baby. Let's slowly work our way back into exploring fertility clinics and getting bloodwork done. Let's see if my eggs are releasing the right hormones, or whatever it is that they do. Can I even have a baby, and so that's kind of where I am right now. Right?

I've had my first intrauterine ultrasound. And so that's when they take a submarine telescope, and they put it inside of you and they look at your eggs. And they're like, “Oh, you got a couple here on the left and the right.”

They did my blood work. They do that to test those are your hormone levels, I think. And I've also had genetic testing done to make sure that I don't carry the Loch Ness Monster gene or something like that.

Josie: Such a great lead up! Yes. I feel it too. I feel like this is the year. So did you always know that you want it to be the person to carry? Because I know that that varies from couple to couple and in queer situations.

Gabby: Oh yes. Well, for those of you at home, I'm butch presenting, like shorter hair, tattoos, chubby poppy mommy. Anyone that would see me and my girlfriend together, she's super high femme, you would imagine Oh, she's going to carry. There's a such a gendered stigma around who is allowed to be pregnant, you know,and all of that is so silly and unnecessary. So, for me as a butch presenting person, my identity is still very much like full of femininity and softness. And it's the combination of all those things and other genderful feelings that I experience, that made it of course, I'm definitely going to carry this baby. If I can, then I shall and I will because I don't know, I think it's going to be this beautiful experience and this wacky wild ride, and I'm always in it for the ride.

Josie: It definitely is a wacky, wild ride. I love that. I love that term genderful.

Gabby: Yeah, I love that. Thank you.

Josie: What challenges or I'm sure there has been but if you feel like sharing or are open to sharing any challenges that you've run up against, especially as a queer person of color and wanting to conceive on your own?

Gabby: Yes, challenges. There's so many. So, just in general, there's so many options. You can work with doulas. You can work with your best friend who knows all sorts of vulva opening magic, you can work with your family doctor, you can just get knocked up by one of your lovers. There's so many ways that for me, I was a little overwhelmed at first. I am in a monogamous relationship. And also, none of my partners have been folks who produce sperm. So, it was always going to be me,the “solo queer parenting is a trip” comes from, okay, it is just me. I'm going to be the parent. What do I need to do first? Right, it has been hard to kind of figure out what is even that first step. Financially, I have my savings, I pay my own bills. I generate my own income off of writing and speaking but the prices for in vitro fertilization are like $30,000 a pop. I'm sorry baby. We're not doing that.

Josie: Right.

Gabby: So, it's budgeting, finding the ways, the who’s, the how’s. I was just going to a fertility clinic here in California and the first clinic I went to was super chill and knew all the language that makes you feel comfortable and appreciated and welcomed. They are so good with pronouns, so good with like alternative family structures, right? Very much using pro-parent, pro-body language. And then this other facility clinic, the one that's actually closer to my new place of residence. They are definitely those old school doctors. It's older men, it's an older man of color so that makes me feel extra awkward because, I want to support you but then also, you're not supporting me bro, like nobody's grandpa out here calling my eggs borderline.

Josie: Oh god.

Gabby: Like somebody's grandpa looking at me and being like “You have more chance or getting struck by lightning than getting pregnant, you old lesbian.”

Josie: Oh God.

Gabby: So that's one of the challenges. It really, it really shouldn't be this hard to acquire sperm. Literally, I feel like at any given moment, there are fountains of sperm men are just throwing away into the void.

Those ones especially because other folks who produce sperm, I feel like I'm more reverent about it, you know. They're just giving it away. And then we have to pay like $800 to $1,000 for a vial of this stuff. So, what does that mean about the security of our abilityto create the queer families that we want?

Josie: Totally, and that sperm banks are so catered to white sperm.

Gabby: Yeah, oh, my God, straight white families and lots of white sperm. Oh, my God. I am Puerto Rican. And I am doing my damnedest to find Puerto Rican sperm. And it is virtually impossible. And I've talked to a couple of my other friends, Central American, queer women trying to have a baby and they're like, you can't find Puerto Rican sperm. Imagine me trying to find Nicaraguan sperm.

Josie: Right, right here in the United States, you know.

Gabby: And I had originally thought that it was because maybe men of color have more of a stigma about the process. And that could be true, but I was also reading that there's a lot of barriers in place that make it difficult and expensive for sperm donors to donate as well.

Josie: Interesting. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Have there been any joyful parts in trying to conceive, I know that you like to focus on bringing joy into experiences?

Gabby: And yeah, joy is in all of it, joy is never devoid of suffering or pain or harm. Well, maybe it's devoid of harm, but this whole process is a joy for me to root deep in myself, and in the middle of a pandemic, being able to be like, no matter what, you are going to do this, you're going to attempt this, you're going to move in this rhythm in this direction of parenthood. That is a gift, that is such a clear feeling and a precise motivation, you know. There's no baby yet I'm here, like, get up, get up for your baby, go write, go write for that baby. You know, not replacing doing it for myself. But adding on to that, the joy is in talking about it and talking to other queer folks and like, even straight women who are having babies, who are my friends, connecting over this and finding out all the ways that queer folks of color are navigating the birthing worlds, right. And even meeting you, Josie and learning that there are Latinx acupuncturists, who specialize in fertility, talk about making pathways, and creating a world that maybe 10 years ago didn't exist in that same way and I'm sure 10 years ago, there were Latinx acupuncturists, but there's so much more access to each other now.

Josie: Yeah, for sure. That's so true.

Gabby: You know, listen, this is really going to age me for a second. It’s been many years, I know Ani diFranco has like fallen out of fashion. But she says, “I do it for the joy it brings because I'm a joyful girl. The world owes me nothing, and we owe each other the world.”

Josie: Oh, I love that line.

Gabby: Right. I still hold that to be true.

Josie: I love that.

Gabby: And that quote is the foundation of this baby journey for me.

Josie: That's so powerful. I also used to be an Ani DiFranco fan.

Gabby: It was a time.

Josie: There definitely was a time. I was going to ask if you had any advice for folks who are in a similar position, trying to conceive, if you had any, good words of encouragement or advice or anything. What would you want to hear from someone else? Or what do you think might be helpful?

Gabby: Sure, well, if you're a solo, queer, butch of color, you should know that you are allowed to want a child, to want to conceive a child. And that there may come up some feelings about gender presentation and how you are being perceived in the world. But what really matters is your intentions and your hopes and how you plan to move forward.

You are allowed to take up space and to create the family that you want, that you dream about. And any advice is, talk to people. You are not alone. When I say solo, I say solo instead of alone, because I am the decision maker. But I'm not a team of one. I am in a relationship, she is not going to co-parent, which is both of our choices. And it's a beautiful thing. And I am still doing my baby making thing and she is so supportive. My mom and my dad and my brother know, all my friends know, I'm reaching out to folks like you, Josie, I'm reaching out to doulas that I know from the Bronx, from Oakland, anyone that I feel safe with and has a listening ear for me, I share this story, because it like breathes more life into the process. And I feel in my heart that it also helps like summon that baby spirit. You know, a lot of the healers that I work with have talked about that there is a baby spirit. And when you offer yourself and give offerings to the baby spirit, it will find you.

Josie: Oh, I love that.

Gabby: Yeah, right. I hold on to that. And I firmly believe in it. Yourself and that baby spirit are like the main energies that matter most.

Josie: Totally. I love that so much. I agree.

In Chinese medicine our fertility is known as our essence or our authentic self. And in order to access more of that essence, or that fertility, that creative power, that fertile potential, it helps to connect with who we really are and our authentic self. And I think, especially as queer folks who are people of color, I think it's especially important for us to have practices in place to connect with our authentic self, not only from a fertility point of view, but just for our well-being in general. And I wonder if you have any practices in place that allow you to connect with that essence of who you are?

Gabby: Oh my gosh. Wait, so you're saying - you said that in Chinese medicine, fertility is our essence?

Josie: Yeah.

Gabby: Can you explain that? Just pull that apart a little bit more.

Josie: Yeah, totally. So, it's actually our kidney essence, which is our fertility blueprint. So, our kidney essence in Chinese medicine dictates how old we'll be when we get our first period, how old we'll be when we go through menopause, how many eggs we’re born with, that sort of thing. So, there's sort of a loose connection to genetics, or our constitution somewhat, how we're born with that kidney essence. And so, Chinese medicine takes into account not just the physical, but also the mental/emotional aspects of our being and health. And so, if you kind of take that to mean to its literal meaning, which is our actual essence, the essence of who we are, then becoming more in touch with that actually gives us more access to that fertile energy. And there's also other things we can do to get access to that fertile energy through diet and through acupuncture and herbs and things like that. But just from a purely mental/emotional standpoint, there's also that really important layer of connecting with your essence.

Gabby: I feel that, especially you saying kidneys. One of the ways that I'm trying to, I guess prepare myself for this and prepare my body for this process, and to connect to my fertility is like I've been like a cannabis user for 20 something years. Smoking edibles, mostly that kind of stuff, smoking marijuana. And for the most part, anytime I told the doctor that I smoked weed, they're always like, “Oh, that's fine, as long as you don't smoke cigarettes, oh, that's fine la-la-la.” But now, folks are like, well, first of all, you can’t get smoke or drink when you're pregnant, right. But the preparation for that, a lot of folks are like cannabis isn't really like the best herb to engage with when you're trying to get your womb ready. So, I’m doing my best to cut out the cannabis. I have cut back from drinking from my own personal reasons. And so, I'm trying to do a lot of that, getting back into the stretching of my body, getting back into just being very present in myself and making sure that the things that I eat and drink are offering me like nourishment and care. And that is not always easy. That has not been easy, especially during this pandemic, especially when comfort foods, fast foods really do kind of step in and are saying, “Hey, eat me. And you might feel calmer for like 20 minutes”. “Eat me because I’m here and you don't have to cook.” It is a challenge, but it also feels good. I feel like I'm praying more. And I am lighting more candles and like navigating my world with more flowers and plants. You know, nesting, right? They call it nesting.

Josie: I love that.

Gabby: I think that’s what I'm trying to get. A couple of months ago, I wasn't living in a safe environment, a couple of months ago, I was like in the grip of comfort eating and lack of activity. And now with the Baby Plan moving forward, I was like, no, I need a safe home. Right, I need a calm environment, I need to be better and balanced with my nourishment and my sleep. And so that's where I am right now. It feels good.

Josie: Something I teach my patients all the time is how to create feelings of safety in the body. Because it sends signals that it's safe to bring a baby into the world rather than when you're functioning at these high stress levels and sending signals that you know there's a flood or a famine or a war or a pandemic or something, so it's tricky during this pandemic time to kind of try to trick our nervous systems into creating this sense of safety so that all the right hormones are getting made and the right signals are being sent to tell our bodies it's fine, it's safe, this baby will be taken care of.

Gabby: Totally. Oh my god, ever since I listened to the episode you have that talks about creating a fertile womb environment, literally what we're talking about. You describe belly breathing. Right? And you do talk a little bit about letting your body know that your belly, your womb is a safe space. So, I'm here lying in bed, holding my belly, breathing into my belly, telling myself, telling the spirit. “It is safe here, you are loved here.” Like that breathing exercise is really like an offering it. It has centered me in my body and pulled me into a calm space and gives me that moment to say those things to say like you are safe, you will be loved here, you will be held here.

Josie: Right. That's so important. I wonder too does writing help for you to connect with that authentic self? Or is that different?

Gabby: You know what it has been such, me and my writing energies have had such a time. During the pandemic, I was so numb with fear, and chaos, right that I didn't write at all- I couldn't. That was really hard. It felt like ice, like a block of ice, literally, in one of my most like sacred places. And so now I'm writing again, which is good. And I wouldn't say it's like a place of tremendous calm. But I would say that there's a giddy “make that money for your baby” energy. Like write the story, write the story to make some money, but also write the story because your baby's going to get to read it one day, and their friends going to read it and you want all the babies to read your story. There is this good wave of energy that comes along.

Josie: All right that is so cool.

Gabby: Like Cardi what she's like, “oh, I got a baby. I need some money. I need cheese for my egg.” I hear that in my head, and I'm like, okay, Cardi. We're writing this chapter.

Josie: Oh, my God. That's so cute. So, now, I'd love to open it up to any questions you have for me if there's anything I can answer for you, fertility related?

Gabby: Yes. I mean, first and foremost, for anybody listening, and this is a question I posed to you, when we were just prep talking. How does cannabis impact one's fertility?

Josie:. It's a great question. So, cannabis, mostly the smoking of it, is what can be problematic for egg quality. According to Chinese medicine, that smoke entering the lungs can burn Yin, the Yin energies, which is that part of that kidney energy that we want to stay keep healthy for fertility purposes. So, the kidneys, there's two types of energy called Yin and Yang. So, there's the kidney Yin, and the kidney Yang which are loosely related to estrogen and progesterone. So that kidney Yin is cooling and moistening, and more related to estrogen levels. And kidney Yang is more warming and drying and more related to progesterone levels. So, we need both right? We need both and good balance in order to conceive and hold the pregnancy and create a healthy baby. So, anytime we are adding an abundance of heat to the system, especially dry heat, it burns and depletes that Yin, that cooling moistening of the kidney. And so that's the that's one of the main reasons why smoking cannabis can be problematic.

The other thing that it does, you had mentioned that you eat something that makes you feel good for like 20 minutes. And there's a similar thing there where we tend to crave things, our bodies are smart, and we self-medicate, you know. So, if we're feeling stressed, we tend to crave things that will give us that quick relief. And most of the time, those are the things that give us the quickest relief, which is like alcohol, caffeine, sugar, spicy food, in some cases, weed, those things can actually cause more what we call liver chi stagnation in the long run. So, it creates this vicious cycle. But the things that are more sustaining that relieve that stress for longer periods of time, are not a quick fix. So, it's more of a long-term cumulative effect, which is not nearly as satisfying in the moment. [Laughter]

Gabby: Right. Oh my gosh. So then, as we talked about, another reason why I'm like curbing the cannabis use and then when it comes to when I was working with fertility clinic, they actually did offer one of the pamphlets in their booklet which was for acupuncture. But they did not in any way present it like the way that you do. So, I'm just curious about, why does it seem like this is such a like hidden thing? You know, like, why isn't acupuncture something that is, like explained and offered in a much bigger way? You know? And if you could, what are some benefits of it for folks who are trying to give birth?

Josie: Totally.

Gabby: Esepcially for chubby folks like me, right. Like, let’s add that in there, right? Chubby bodied folks are also given such a hard time about wanting to have a baby, we’re told to lose weight first, or you're going to have diabetes the whole time, or you're going to have a heart attack, so how can acupuncture help somebody like me, a chubby bodied person trying to conceive?

Josie: Right? Well, yeah, that's such a good question. I mean, acupuncture, fortunately, is becoming more and more well known. And it is becoming more mainstream, because there have been studies done that show that fertility outcomes are more effective with acupuncture. So that's been nice. Like, for example, the fertility clinic that I work with pretty closely here in Colorado, they have dedicated acupuncture rooms in the basement of their fertility clinic. So, I go on the day of transfer for most of my patients, and I do before and after acupuncture sessions. So that's been huge and I go to some other fertility clinics around Colorado that do that as well. So, it is getting a little bit more widely recognized. But the benefits of it are that it can improve blood flow to the area; it can help to balance hormones; it can help to resolve masses, any type of small things like polyps or cysts or things like that, if it's too big, an acupuncture is not going to help, but if they're small, or something that someone has a tendency to have, then acupuncture can help prevent those, and can help resolve small ones. It can help oxygenate the blood, mainly can help with also lowering anxiety and stress levels throughout the whole process, which is huge.

Gabby: Which is why I’ve been smoking weed for 20 years.

Josie: Right. Right.

Gabby: Good ole Puerto Rican anxiety.

Josie: Exactly. [Laughter] So, yeah, and as far as weight in association with fertility, there's so much inaccurate information out there about how weight affects fertility, and most of it is not true. You know, there's really nothing that empirically says a certain weight is going to make you less fertile, or have a healthier pregnancy. It's just a bias that exists in our culture. And unfortunately, it's really pushed by the medical community.

Gabby: Yeah, they really love getting on you, man. Like they really love just starting there. As if it’s a fixed and permanent and something you did to yourself type of condition, right? Like, it's so wild. My body has fluctuated between so many weights my whole life, you know. And there have been moments where people have made fun of me for my weight, and I'm like, wow, but for me, that was the smallest I've ever been. Not that we should be aiming towards smallness. But it's so warped. And I think when there is concern, especially from my family, about me on this baby journey. It's like one part that I'm by myself and another part, “What about your weight Nanna?” Like, that is definitely on people's minds. And I'm just like, Well, what about it? Fat bitches have been having babies forever!

Josie: Absolutely.

Gabby: Like damn. You know, it does make me doubt myself sometimes. And it does add worry. So, it really is so helpful to hear somebody like you be like, hey, one of the things you shouldn't be doing right now is worrying too much about that.

Josie: Yeah, absolutely. And if anything, I come across in my private practice, I mean, a lot of patients having more trouble being too thin, that's where some problems come in fertility wise, because you need body fat for estrogen levels. You know, so that becomes problematic, for sure.

Gabby: Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, you hear that.

Josie: Exactly. So yeah, something else I was going to mention to you, we started talking about the liver, and how stress can lead to what we call liver qi stagnation in Chinese medicine. And I wanted to extrapolate on that, where that's problematic is that the liver is one of the main places where estrogen is processed. And so, a lot of times these things that we self-medicate with are what are referred to as liver loaders in Western medicine, or allopathic medicine, because the liver is the main one of the main places where they're processed. So, then if the liver is backed up, processing all these things like coffee, alcohol, sugar, or caffeine, then it can't do its job of processing the estrogen in a healthy way. And so, then we get things like malformed estrogen getting recycled back into the body. And then we get all kinds of reproductive imbalances and disharmonies in that way. So that's, that's how I like to explain that to people so that they're not just like, I can't drink and I can't have caffeine and I can't do all these fun things in order to have a baby. But I like to explain the reason why so that people know, I'm trying to keep my liver open and clear so that I can keep my estrogen levels balanced.

Gabby: Hmm. Oh, my gosh, and sugar’s on that list too. And I'm like, how many spoonfuls of sugar am I putting in my coffee this morning?

Josie: I know.

Gabby: I have been thinking about this. I've never been like a cold turkey person. So, it's good to like, just keep kind of reining it in, you know.

Josie: And there's good alternatives to sugar too. I mean, sugar itself is not that bad. You know, I think honestly, what's worse are a lot of the sugar substitutes that have chemicals in them and are supposed to be no sugar or low sugar. But there's lots of sweeteners that actually have good nutritional content like  honey and maple syrup, for example, and molasses, there's a lot of good sweeteners that have lots of antioxidants in them, or all sorts of different properties that can be helpful.

Gabby: Yeah, I mean, diet seems like such a big part of all of this. I'm trying to find information or books on Caribbean food, and baby making.

Josie: Nice. Yeah.

Gabby: What is a traditional, or healthy, plentiful Puerto Rican food diet. I mean, that I could keep adding to, and I generate for myself, because I'm 38, right. And in my life, I don't have any grandmothers right now. And my own mother is super far away. And it's been a while since she had any grandmothers. So, there's some traditions around baby making and like food that I feel are lost to me. You know. And so, that's another part of this journey, where I'm trying to reach out to folks and regain access to that information. Because I mean, we all know that this American diet is trash. And so, how do we create healthy womb spaces? Like, when I because many people are still connected to their indigenous traditions, right? But like, someone like me, diaspo-Rican, what am I supposed to eat?

Josie: Right. Totally.

Gabby: And like, you know on Instagram and folks like you and different people who are doing this work, but it's, at times does not feel accessible in the mainstream at all.

Josie: Totally. There's a great cookbook that was recommended to me. I just looked it up because I couldn't remember the title. It's called “Decolonize your Diet”.

Gabby: Oh, yes.

Josie: Have you heard of it?

Gabby: I have that one.

Josie: Oh, you do?

Gabby: Yes, they got the Chicana power beans in that one.

Josie: Right [Laughter] Okay, good. Yeah, I was going to recommend that one. It looks amazing. I haven't tried it out yet.

Gabby: Yeah, it's a good start. I think it leans more on Mexican tradition.

Josie: It does. Yeah.

Gabby: You know, but listen, I'm a sucker for rice and beans and tortillas. Let's do it.

Josie: Cool. Well, Gabby, where can people find you? How can they get your books and support you?

Gabby: Yeah, the best way to find me is on Instagram @quirkyrican. I have one of those linkt.ree thingies there and you can buy Juliet Takes a Breath, my young adult novel about a queer 19-year-old Puerto Rican girl finding herself, in paperback, hardcover and graphic novel. Wut wut! Yes, and if you're looking for my run of America Chavez from Marvel, just hit up your local comic book shop, Volumes One and Two are available now.

Josie: Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. You're such an inspiration to me and to so many folks listening.

Gabby: Thank you so much. Thank you for being you and inviting me here and talking baby talk with me.

Josie: Anytime. Absolutely anytime.

Gabby: Bye now.

Josie: If you want to learn more about how to give yourself the best chance of conceiving, having a healthy pregnancy and baby or babies, head over to intersectionalfertility.com/fertile and put your name on the waiting list to be notified when Fertile registration opens. Fertile is a queer, trans and non-binary centered five-week online program for people with wombs to reclaim power over their fertility journey and conceive using the whole self-fertility method. Registration will open this summer.

Thanks for listening to the Intersectional Fertility Podcast. You can find us online at Intersectionalfertility.com and on your favorite podcast platform. If you liked the show and want to hear more, tap subscribe. And please consider leaving us a review. It really truly helps. The intersectional fertility podcast is hosted by me. Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier with audio production by Bryce Anderson-Gregson and music by Jen Korte.

All content offered through The Intersectional Fertility Podcast is created for informational purposes only, it is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.