Episode 61 - Anjie Cho: Mindfully Inviting Movement Into Our Spaces Using Feng Shui

Anjie (she/her) is an Asian American feng shui educator, architect, and author of the newly released book Mindful Homes. Today's episode is an introduction to feng shui, including ways to improve your space and how it applies to a fertility journey. You'll learn why to be mindful of your bed, stove, and desk, how to intentionally use items and colors to invite specific energies, and more.

[ID: A beige background and orange semi-circle. Text reads: The Intersectional Fertility Podcast Episode 61: Anjie Cho @anjiecho, photo by Moho Pourazizi, and Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier @intersectionalfertility.]

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Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: This is an automatically generated transcript edited to be more readable. It may not be 100% accurate.

[00:00:00] Josie: I am Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier, and this is the Intersectional Fertility Podcast, where ideas and identities intersect to deepen our understanding of fertility and ultimately our Whole Selves.

[00:00:32] Hi, friend. Guess what? We're doing a book giveaway. I'm so excited, we haven't done one of these before. So today's guest is Anjie Cho and her book, Mindful Homes is incredible. It's all about feng shui and how to bring it into your life and make really easy, simple changes that are life shifting. So after you hear today's episode, you're definitely gonna want your own copy, and we are giving away three books.

[00:01:00] So all you have to do to enter is become a member of my qmunity. And you can do that by going to my website, intersectionalfertility.com, and you can just click on qmunity, and that's spelled with a Q. That's for Queer plus Community. And once you click there, it will take you to a screen to start your own account and then you're in. You've joined our community and it's free to join.

[00:01:26] So all you have to do to enter the book giveaway is to join our qmunity. And then once you're in, find the post of today's episode and it will either be the video version or the audio version, doesn't matter. You can choose either one and just make a comment under today's episode in the community. So you make a comment about something, a takeaway that you had from today's episode, or a light bulb moment or something you wanna try in your own life, or something you wanna discuss further, any comment that you want, and that will enter you in the giveaway.

[00:02:03] I will pick three winners on Friday, July 28th. So y'all have about a week and a half to listen to the episode and enter the giveaway, and your chances are really high. Because our qmunity is just getting started and there's not a ton of people in there yet. So this is one of the reasons I wanna do the giveaway inside the qmunity is to bring y'all over there.

[00:02:25] So definitely join. It's free to join. Go to intersectionalfertility.com, click on qmunity spelled with a Q, and then create your account and find today's episode and make a comment. And that will enter you in the giveaway. So good luck, enjoy today's episode, and I'll see you inside our community.

[00:02:44] Anjie Cho is a feng shui educator. She's guided thousands of people to harmonize their living spaces through the ancient practice of feng shui. Anjie is the feng shui expert at the Spruce, Co-founder of the Mindful Design Feng Shui School, co-host of the Holistic Spaces Podcast, and owner of Anjie Cho architect.

[00:03:16] She's the author of two books, Holistic Spaces and Mindful Homes. Welcome to the podcast, Anjie. 

[00:03:23] Anjie: Hi, Josie. Thanks so much for having me. 

[00:03:25] Josie: Yeah, absolutely. So will you share with us your pronouns and where you're located? 

[00:03:31] Anjie: Sure, my pronouns are she/her, and I'm on Lenape Land, which is Manhattan, New York City. 

[00:03:39] Josie: So what is the story that led you to do the work you do today as an architect and a feng shui educator? And how did the two relate to each other, if they do? 

[00:03:48] Anjie: Thanks for asking that. I think in general, I always wanted to be some kind of artist growing up and somehow that translated to studying architecture and moving into that field as a young adult. And I worked in the architecture field and I found that while rewarding, that I felt it was really a wonderful thing to work with people in their spaces.

[00:04:16] Working in the corporate world, and working for other people, and working in the architecture field was really difficult. I remember thinking to myself in my late twenties, thinking that this was all there was to life. Just getting up, going to work all day, and then just going home. And it led me to a place where in my late twenties, during my Saturn return, which is when you're in your late twenties and Saturn goes back to where it was in Western astrology when you were born.

[00:04:49] And I started to reevaluate what was going on in my life. I had a huge epiphany where I realized I was really depressed and I needed to change my life. So I was actually in Thailand and I had a reiki session. I didn't even know what reiki was. I didn't have any interest in anything esoteric or any kind of healing, but I had the session and it was a huge epiphany for me.

[00:05:18] And I realized that when I got back to New York, I needed to change things. So I started studying meditation and yoga. Which then led me to start to consider how can I have this more integrated with the rest of my life and with the work that I do because I spend so much time working. And so I started studying feng shui.

[00:05:44] And then at some point, like during the last recession, I got laid off. And then I just, like a lot of things happened, like I couldn't get a job, but projects fell into my lap and I was able to start my own architecture firm and in tandem with starting to formally study feng shui in a three year certification program.

[00:06:05] And then my whole life shifted. So I began to practice feng shui and also start to practice architecture and feng shui. I don't remember if I said feng shui first. But I started to practice both around the same time. Over the last decade it's kind of been a lot of like, how do these weave together?

[00:06:26] How do they not come together? Where if you look at it from a bird's eye perspective, I'm working with people in their spaces and in many different ways. Sometimes if you look at it with binoculars very close up or if you magnify the situation, a lot of times the feng shui and the architecture doesn't really correspond because a lot of architecture is actually project management.

[00:06:49] And also a lot of feng shui teaching, which is primarily what I do now, is educate people on to become feng shui practitioners. That's also a lot of teaching and not, and teaching and transmitting feng shui. But it's a lot of modeling too for people. So this is how it comes together in my life. And that's kind of, The story in a nutshell. 

[00:07:11] Josie: Nice. Yeah, that's interesting that you say that cause I thought actually architecture and feng shui seem to go really well together in my mind. Cause like you said, it's all about working with people in their spaces basically. In different capacities. But that also makes sense that, one of my best friends is an architect. And when you said most of architecture is management, I was like, yes. That's what I hear as well. That that's a lot of it. 

[00:07:37] Anjie: Yeah. There's a lot of practical aspects to working with people in their spaces, whether someone's an interior designer or an architect. You have to manage things. It's a lot of things to create an environment for someone. 

[00:07:52] Josie: Yes, totally. A lot of logistics. Yeah, that makes sense. So what does feng shui mean and what is it? 

[00:08:01] Anjie: So feng shui is a Chinese phrase. And feng means wind, and shui means water. So feng shui is a practice that originally comes from China, but many, many cultures, I would say probably all cultures have some practice in how to look at their specific location and their environment to see how as human beings, they can live in harmony with the natural elements.

[00:08:35] So the words feng shui just kind of point to some natural elements that we need to thrive. But also, you know, these elements of wind and water are also elements that always need to be in motion. Like wind can't exist if it's not moving. Like that's the essence of wind, that it's in motion. 

[00:08:56] And water, when water stagnates, it's very unhealthy. It's not life giving. And there the qi is depleted and just frankly, no one would wanna drink stagnant water. It would make you sick. So it's not life giving. So I think those two words, feng shui or the two the translations of feng shui really point a lot to what feng shui is.

[00:09:20] And on a superficial level, just like with Chinese medicine, what you practice, or like acupuncture, or even with meditation people or yoga even anything, a lot of things you could think like, oh, I wanna start meditating so I can be really efficient at work. So same with feng shui.

[00:09:39] People on the superficial level may think, okay, I really wanna know what crystal to put in the corner, or what color to paint my wall. And that is part of it, but it's not the only part of it and it's probably the most superficial part of it. 

[00:09:57] Josie: Totally. Yeah. And I love that you explain that so well in your book, which we're gonna talk about, and I have it right here. It's such a beautiful book. For those of you who can see the video version of this it's backwards, but here it is. It's so beautiful. I love like the layout and the illustrations, or you know, the photos and everything. It's just a gorgeous book.

[00:10:19] But I love how you talk about the mindfulness aspect of practicing feng shui. Like you said, it's not just about what wall color to use and what crystal to place. And also interesting that you said brought up like the stagnation of water. We actually talked about that in a couple episodes ago with a different guest, how that can be so problematic. Like both of those, you know, the wind and the water they need to be, you know, doing their thing and moving and, yeah. So interesting. 

[00:10:47] Anjie: Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure that everyone has the same perspective of about feng shui with that mindfulness connection. And I even look back at like my first book, which was written a decade ago, where I was also at a different place in my life where I felt like, give people tips and things that they could do, actionable items.

[00:11:08] And that's the best way to help people and, because of the role that I've taken, like I've stepped into like kind of an educator role in terms of feng shui. And also the way that the world is changing in terms of like how you offer content and, and knowledge. Which I separate from wisdom.

[00:11:28] So I'm not sure that everyone else has this perspective, but through my own practices as a Buddhist practitioner, and a meditation practitioner, and a Feng Shui practitioner. And teaching also meditation and feng shui. I really felt a calling to write this second book where it is actually my own perspective on feng shui, and that's the way I teach it because that's the way that I understand feng shui. 

[00:11:54] So I don't know if anyone else would agree with this necessarily, besides me and Laura, my business partner. But I think it's so important because it really goes hand in hand with Buddhist principles. And also meditation practices. Like even that, the idea of the stagnation with water or with wind, that's the same as the Buddhist principle. 

[00:12:18] Like, okay, first of all, you don't have to be Buddhist to be interested in feng shui, but one of the Buddhist principles, like the foundational principles is that when we start to solidify and view the world as being a fixed, solid thing, is when suffering arises, when we want things different than as they are.

[00:12:40] And that's the same thing as water not moving. When you don't move, when your body doesn't move, when water can't flow, when your thoughts, your mind and your heart can't be flexible is when we really go through a lot of suffering. 

[00:12:58] Josie: Yes, oh my gosh, I just got goosebumps when you said that. Like, that makes so much sense to me. And I feel like this comes up over and over again while supporting folks on their fertility journey. Because people do get so fixated and kind of stuck on that end goal of having a baby, and how we're gonna get there. And it's like, and people do experience so much stagnation, you know, that I see in my private practice. So that makes so much sense that that would translate to feng shui and the spaces that they're in and yeah. 

[00:13:31] Anjie: Yeah, cuz Feng Shui also is this interesting connection between heaven and earth. What's visible and what's invisible. And so if we apply it to fertility, it's not just about getting your body into the right place where you can conceive, you have to also work with the invisible realm too. 

[00:13:48] But if you neglect one and not the other, especially if you're already having some difficulty and challenges with it, you can exacerbate the issue. And so we've really been conditioned to separate. Thinking like, if I do all the western medicine or do all the right things, why can't I get pregnant?

[00:14:07] But there's so many friends that I've had that they're very like western in that mindset. But then they finally gave in and like went to acupuncture and then they got pregnant like right away. And they're like, what? 

[00:14:21] Josie: Totally, yes. And what I see over and over too is that the invisible eventually becomes visible. In terms of illness or patterns of disharmony in the body, a lot of times they'll start in an invisible place. You know, so it's just, it's a qi stagnation and then that qi stagnation can grow to a blood stagnation. And then that blood stagnation can progress to something more serious.

[00:14:47] So it is like, if you ignore that invisible piece, you know of the puzzle, it can really cause a lot of harm, down the road if you're not taking both of those things into account. 

[00:14:58] Anjie: Yeah, absolutely. They go hand in hand. And we really like, I think we're gonna talk about this but we can really create as humans a binary situation where it has to be one or the other. And these are not interconnected, nor are they interdependent, nor are they, I can like look at them exclusively, but they're two sides of the same coin. 

[00:15:18] Josie: Right, right. Exactly. Yeah. So good. So in your book, Mindful Homes, which I have absolutely devoured and I've made so many changes, and I'm gonna share with you what I've done in a little bit. You talk about the difference between cultural appropriation versus cultural appreciation, I really loved this. Will you explain the difference? 

[00:15:39] This is something that's always on my mind as a non-Asian person when I engage in Asian rooted practices. And I know many of my listeners will be wondering the same thing if they wanna try some of these feng shui practices.

[00:15:51] Anjie: Yeah, I think it's also a question, an answer and topic that's always flowing. And I think that while there may not be a written out answer for this, I think it's a great exploration to be curious about. Because first of all, I study many Asian practices and I am Asian, I'm Korean.

[00:16:14] But I'm an Asian-American, I was born here in the States. And most of my teachers are Amer, are Caucasian, actually. But their teacher, my root teachers were from Asia. And I do have more and more Asian teachers from Asia. But there's also like this interesting disconnect because I connect maybe more with American teachers because I'm Asian American.

[00:16:43] So there's this interesting place I feel that I'm in where I'm bridging the two, the east and the west, where I have kind of the cultural background. Cause my parents immigrated here from Korea. But then we were raised Protestant without much connection to these esoteric practices. And then they were reintroduced to me through a Western lens or a more modernized lens.

[00:17:13] So it's a question that I'm always thinking about. And I think that a lot of people consider, and I think that's the first step is to just to notice that is to be already be aware and appreciate that. And then I think also having curiosity about how these teachings were rolled out in like from the Asian perspective versus like the Western perspective.

[00:17:39] Some of my Western teachers I've heard say like, or we talk about like the medical the Western medical community. Cause my sister is a psychiatrist. So she went to medical school. And I hear they say you see one, do one, teach one. Have you heard that before? 

[00:17:58] Josie: No. What does that mean?

[00:17:59] Anjie: Okay, so you see a procedure, you do a procedure, and then you teach one. So it's very fast, whereas interesting. I feel that from the Asian perspective, there's an assumption, that you spend your whole lifetime mastering something. Right. And so I would never call myself a master of something or having mastered something.

[00:18:24] I would always say I'm a student. At least now, but I'm in my mid forties, but maybe when I'm 99, that'll change. But if I reach that age, then I think that there's some things to embrace. I can be curious about like, okay, this is different then I understand it. From my own cultural conditioning and how can I be curious and appreciate different things? 

[00:18:52] Because I think that like there's some practices that may be foreign like, like I take flower arranging class, Japanese flower arranging ikebana, and then, my teacher is from Japan, but he'll do like really odd things from a western point of view for teaching.

[00:19:09] Like he'll just put your arrangement together for you, like for your first class, and then you take it apart and put it back together. Like you don't have any personal input. Or you know, the idea that you just do the scales over and over and improvise later. Whereas I feel like from the Western perspective, you're expected to be very individual to kind of do something unique all the time.

[00:19:33] So yeah. So there's kind of that, those different perspectives and how to kind of work with both and acknowledge both. So I think that's the beginning of how to culturally appreciate rather than appropriate. And then I think with feng shui, what I see a lot is the tendency to want to, like people, like, give me the checklist please. Just give it to me. 

[00:19:55] Josie: Just tell me what to do. 

[00:19:56] Anjie: Just gimme a pdf, please just gimme a PDF and tell me where to put that thing. And that's okay too if they're paying for a consultation or something. But then there's also like, have curiosity about there's, there's something more, or don't, or don't call yourself a master of something and also suddenly say like, I've trademarked my own version of feng shui, which a lot of people a lot of westerners have done.

[00:20:23] Caucasian westerners. They're like, okay, I've just created my own school of feng shui and it's trademarked this way. So that's what I think is a little bit of a cultural appropriation. 

[00:20:34] Josie: Yeah. That makes sense for sure. 

[00:20:37] You say that for most people it feels safer to start with external shifts rather than internal ones, which I'm guessing is one of the reasons why feng shui is so attractive to folks. Like we were just talking about. 

[00:20:49] Will you explain how external change leads to internal change through the lens of feng shui? 

[00:20:55] Anjie: Yes, absolutely. Well, I don't even see the external and the internal as separate. A lot of people have been more open to this, I think, especially since we stayed indoors a lot during the pandemic that people saw, oh, my space kind of is affecting my life cause I'm stuck in here, right? 

[00:21:17] Josie: Yes, totally. 

[00:21:19] Anjie: Yeah. But it's often easy for people to disconnect from their home or the external space. Like they may be walking in through a doorway in and out several times a day where it can only open like 45 degrees. And so then imagine like you're walking through this doorway and you move sideways.

[00:21:44] You're always accommodating for this obstacle. And that affects your qi, that affects your life. And because it's something in your home, it's really easy to ignore it. Like, just like how people get into these accidents, car accidents, like in their neighborhood all the time, because you just become so accustomed to what you're adapting to that it no longer seems odd.

[00:22:09] And so over time, that affects us. And then this other side of it is that, you know, even in our written language, in many different cultures, One would say like, I am opening doors to new opportunities. Or like in the Jewish culture, I heard one time when I was at a synagogue, they said like, may the doors be wide enough to welcome those who are looking for friendship and love.

[00:22:43] Or we talk about crossing thresholds. So we even have it in our language, in the metaphor, in our language, in our spoken language and our written language. And we actually physically walk through doorways but people don't realize, oh wait, when I'm walking through my doorway, I'm walking to the outside world and there's this like some layer of boundary from my inner life. 

[00:23:11] And maybe when I walk through my door, I'm going into this outer realm, this outer layer, this outer mandala. And so it continually, feng shui can give us an opportunity to see beyond just like, what's literal. It's literal, and, it's like heaven and earth.

[00:23:29] It's like the practical, with the esoteric, it's the mundane, like actually walking through a doorway. But there's also like the artistic metaphorical side to it. So I don't see them as separate. They're the same and then if you are walking through this doorway every day and going sideways, that's gonna affect your body, your physical body.

[00:23:51] It's gonna affect your perspective. And in feng shui, we say it affects the amount of qi that comes in from the outside world, and your opportunities. So it's just on so many different levels. 

[00:24:01] Josie: Yes. I love this so much. And for folks who don't know, qi is energy, right? 

[00:24:07] Anjie: Yes. Qi is life force energy. And it's similar to like Prana, if you study yoga and it's also called K I, ki in Japanese, and it's the life force energy that brings, like in feng shui. It's kind of what we look at. We look at mostly how the qi moves through a space, whereas like, acupuncture, for instance, looks at how qi moves through your body, right?

[00:24:32] Qigong is how your qi, your body qi, connects to the earth qi. 

[00:24:36] Josie: Right, right. Yeah. This is something I love so much about Chinese medicine is kind of what you were just describing, where I think I've given these examples before in the podcast, but like I'll listen to people's language when they're speaking about what's going on in their life, and I'll try to superimpose that over what's going on physically. 

[00:24:57] An example is, a friend of mine who was actually seeing me for acupuncture as well, was dealing with a full body fungal infection, or like a yeast fungal infection. And we were talking about a coworker that was driving her nuts and, and she goes, but you know what, he kind of grows on you. And I was like, I was like, did you hear what you just said?

[00:25:22] And she was like, oh my gosh. And she had all these just light bulb moments go off. Like that is when it started, is when I started having this conflict with him. And then I had another patient who was going through a divorce. And he kept struggling with these occipital headaches, like headaches in the back of his head around like the back of the neck area.

[00:25:42] And he kept saying, talking about his divorce and kept saying, but she's, she's always in the back of my mind. She's always in the back of my mind. And I was like, yes. So that's where these headaches are coming from. 

[00:25:54] Anjie: Yes. And that's where it's helpful to see how we're also interconnected with other people, because when you try to diagnose yourself and figure out what's going on, you can't see that.

[00:26:06] You can't step outside and see that. And you are there and a observer and listening and you're, your purpose in that situation is simply to hear to watch, to listen, to see what you've been trained to notice. And it's so helpful to have someone be able to point that out to you.

[00:26:25] And that's how, that's another aspect of feng shui, I think. Also the Buddhist connection is that we're interdependent and interwoven our, and we just like, we need to have someone, people help us, people around us to support us, people to help us heal. To point out things that we can't see.

[00:26:47] We also need our homes to support us because they're as alive as your friend or your future baby, or your parents. So they're also an active participant in your healing and your life journey. 

[00:27:05] Josie: Totally, totally. I've started, just after reading your book, I've really started looking at our house differently and interacting with it differently and regarding it more of like its own, entity or its own spirit, you know, in each room I'm thinking about differently. I mean, it really has shifted the way that I interact with our house, with our home. 

[00:27:28] Anjie: Oh, I love that. Yeah, I love that.

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[00:29:23] In Mindful Homes, you share that the three most important areas of your home are your bed, your stove, and your desk. And I just loved this and I was not familiar with this at all. Will you share what each of these areas represent and why they're so important? And then I'd like to share a funny story about my home office after that.

[00:29:42] Anjie: Sure. So I was talking to my publisher. She's like, well, why do we need to put the desk in here for a home book called Mindful Homes? And I guess because for me, my whole life involved so much of my work. But I gave the excuse that like, most people are working from home now, so she was like ok, well we'll start with that. 

[00:30:02] So your desk represents your career. And it doesn't mean that it has to be a job, a traditional job. It could include being a parent, a stay-at-home parent. It could include being a philanthropist, or a volunteer. It could include being someone in between jobs.

[00:30:22] It could be someone going to a nine to five job, it could be an entrepreneur. It just kind of looks at like what is your path in life? Because I'm also an entrepreneur, I think a lot about work. And I work with people who I trained to become feng shui practitioners. So I think the desk is really important.

[00:30:40] So that's what the desk represents. And it's also where you actually, you know, often sit down and do work. Like, I was on retreat a couple weeks ago and I was like, okay, I'm gonna try to do work, but I'm like, no, I need to be at my desk. Cause it's also not easy to type and write emails and do things when you're not set up in a place where you have the space to do it. So your desk represents your path in life or your work in the world. 

[00:31:07] And then your bedroom represents you because that's where you sleep, that's where you nurture your body. That's where you recuperate when one's sick, where do you go? You go to your, maybe you go to your sofa, but you might also go to your bed, you probably go to your bed. 

[00:31:26] You spend so many hours in your bed. Like if we look at the percentage of our life is spent in our bedroom. It's also the most private space. Like if I went over to your house, you probably wouldn't invite me to your bedroom first. So it's, it's usually just for you, your partner, if you have one, maybe a child. 

[00:31:49] But in general, it's the more private space. You wouldn't invite a stranger into the bedroom. And also you spend this passive yin time. So yin is like the opposite of yang. If your listeners don't know, yin is like when you're kind of passive, it's connected to the moon, it's darkness.

[00:32:07] So you know, when you go to sleep, you disappear. You go into, you disappear totally, and then suddenly you wake up and you're back, you're in a different place, but your body is also very receptive to all the qi around it. So your bed, your bedroom represents you. So it's really, it's like the closest concentric circle to you. So in feng shui, we really say to work on, don't forget your bedroom. To work on your bedroom. 

[00:32:32] And then the stove is where you cook your food. Even if you don't cook, it symbolizes where you cook your food. It's generally where the kitchen is and it's where we also have fires, like the hearth of the home. And in many, many traditional cultures, there's always gathering around the fire as well. And it brings warmth so it can nurture us. It cooks, that's a place where we cook food, so that represents our health, how we nourish ourself, which also leads to how well we can do in the world, so it represents our resources and our finances. 

[00:33:12] Josie: Totally. Yes, it was so clear. I think that's what I loved about that. It was like, okay, I can focus on these three areas and that will feel really life-changing to me. The funny story about my office is that for the longest time, I'd say for the last, I don't know, six months or so, I've been looking for a chase lounge to put in my office because all I've wanted to do when I'm in my home office is take a nap.

[00:33:40] I'm like so tired whenever I would sit down at my desk, I just was like, I felt like all I wanted to do was go lay down and I read your book and that section of the home office, and I was like, oh, okay. This is not how I should be feeling in my office. And so my desk was right up against a wall, you know?

[00:34:02] So I was like staring at a wall. And you and you mentioned in your book like if you're right in front of a wall, that that may be how you feel like in your business. Kind of like, you know, just like stuck or like staring at a brick wall. And I wasn't in the command position, which we can talk about.

[00:34:18] So I switched my desk to be in the command position and then I got a desk blotter that's orange to like wake me up and just kind of bring in that vitality and to ground my workspace. And then I got a plant and placed some crystals in a couple spots that you recommended. And now I feel so much more energized, so much more inspired.

[00:34:40] I have gotten some other business opportunities that have come up that did seem like a result of this energy shifting. And you mentioned like if you're in the command position you can see opportunities coming and I have really felt that. And when I've tried to do work now at other places, like my clinic for example, I just wanna get home so I can work at my home office cuz I feel like so much more productive here.

[00:35:02] Anjie: Oh, nice. You asked about the commanding position. So that is one of the basic principles in feng shui, and it governs where you would locate yourself, for instance, at your desk, but also in those other two places that we talked about. Like how when you're laying in bed or when you're at your stove.

[00:35:22] And so the tendency is for people to put the desk in like the most efficient place spatially. Which sometimes you don't have a space. So you can make adjustments for that, but the idea is that you would wanna be able to see the qi, the energy coming into the space while not being directly in line with it.

[00:35:44] Because when we have our back facing the door or the entry to the space, where qi, or a person, or danger, or any kind of energy, we don't have to judge it. We don't have to say good or bad energy, any kind of qi comes in. We can't see it coming. And we've evolved to be very frontally focused humans.

[00:36:07] And so if you are in a place where maybe we feel at most in an unknown place. In a strange place and you're set up your positions, you can't see the door and you heard the door open or you heard someone come in, you might be very startled. And that actually by putting yourself in a position where your back is facing the door, you're in a subtle fight, subtle or maybe a strong fight or flight response. 

[00:36:35] And so why not if you can, position yourself so you have a little bit more relaxation instead of adding to the, you know, we have a enough anxiety in life. Why do we need to add to that if we have the opportunity to easily just make a turn.

[00:36:53] So I mean that's another way of like, that's another metaphor, right? Like how do we just make a turn in our life? So simply just turning your desk, or turning your view, or being open, like you said, to kind of maybe see some more opportunities. Then we can start to create new neural pathways for new shifts or see things in a different perspective, but also practically and physically. We can see people come in and we're not gonna be surprised or scared or nervous. 

[00:37:24] Josie: Right, right. Yeah, I was not aware of the low level stress I was feeling until I shifted. And now like I am so much aware of like, what is that underlying feeling when I'm doing this or that, and how, you know, it's really helped me to tune in on a finer scale of what's happening in my body.

[00:37:45] And I was sharing this with my wife and we were looking at her home office and she was like, oh no, I can't, like, we can't move the desk in a way that's gonna be in the command position. And I was like, don't worry, you can do a mirror. You can hang a crystal. So I know there might be some folks thinking, oh no, I can't like be in the commanding position.

[00:38:06] Like, what do you do if you can't? And then also, if you don't have a home office to dedicate a desk space to, what can you do there too? 

[00:38:14] Anjie: Right. So if you can't place your desk in command, you can set up a mirror. I like to get the little convex mirrors, like the rear view mirrors. And set it up. They even have ones that now have a pivoting back. And you can set it up so that you can see the door behind you with the intention that like, even though you cannot move your desk, that you can, you can still see the door. 

[00:38:40] And I will say that there's a difference between I can't move my desk and I don't wanna move my desk. And I'm sure you get that a lot, right? With the work you do, like, whoa, you know, I don't wanna take that, do change this lifestyle thing. 

[00:38:56] Josie: Yes. Right. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:38:58] Anjie: But that's not my decision to make. So yeah, there are corrections. For instance, I have a big mirror.

[00:39:07] On the entire back of my desk to work with that issue that you talked about. When you're staring at a wall, maybe you can't move forward in your business or in your life and you, or you're staring at a wall, you're stuck. So I have a mirror that, so I have a wide perspective behind my desk as well.

[00:39:24] So those are like the easiest ways. To correct commanding position. Then what was the other? 

[00:39:30] Josie: Oh, if you don't have an actual home office. 

[00:39:32] Anjie: Oh yeah. An actual home office. Right. So a lot of people have carved out spaces and you do the best you can with what you have. So all of this, and I think including with what you do with everything in life, you have to do the best you can with what you have.

[00:39:44] Don't start with a like, well I can't do this, so then I'm gonna give up. I mean, you can, but then that's all you have. So I work with a lot of people that especially now are working from home or have shifted to working from home and simply don't have a space for a home office. So my solution to that was to was what you alluded to getting a desk blotter.

[00:40:10] So you can find them very easily online and I think they just look nice anyways. They do, but it's like you're, it's like it's, it brings in the earth element. It gives you like a little rollaway desk. So wherever you are, you could be at the coffee table or sitting on your island or your dining table.

[00:40:31] You could roll this desk blotter out, which is usually a rectangular shape, which invites in the earth element. It's also flat, which is earth element and create your own little temporary desk. And it's also you know, in, if you meditate too, like off, like at my meditation center, we have like zabutons that are like a, it goes under your meditation cushion. So it's like a square, it's a seat. 

[00:40:59] It's also giving you permission to take a seat. To take up space to that you belong. In whatever you're doing in this world, you belong in this world, you have a place to put your feet down. You have a place to put your computer down.

[00:41:16] You have a place to make your mark, and you don't have to always be up in the air. So you can ground yourself, you can, you have permission to take some space on this earth. And then you put it away when you don't need it. And then the color, you can pick a color based on one of the elements.

[00:41:34] And you picked orange. So I'm assuming like a fiery orange to bring in a little bit of, a little bit of fire. And you probably like orange too, right? 

[00:41:42] Josie: I do like orange. Yeah. I noticed it's in all my branding and I was like, oh, that's interesting. I've been really gravitating towards orange lately.

[00:41:49] Anjie: Yeah. Well your logo's also kind of like a earthy orange too. Well at least the little icon I'm looking at. It's like a little bit of a terracotta. So it has earth and fire. Yeah, it has earth and fire. 

[00:42:03] Josie: Interesting. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, totally. I know I am obsessed with my desk blotter.

[00:42:08] I like haven't used one of these since the nineties probably. Or maybe eighties. And I was like, oh yeah, desk blotters. Like I forgot those were a thing. And I just love mine. It really has changed the whole vibe. And you can use it as like a mouse pad. You don't need a mouse pad anymore. Yeah. 

[00:42:25] Anjie: I love them. I love them. And it just, I just had to come up with a solution cause so many people were like I don't have this. And so, It's just what I've come up with over the years.

[00:42:36] Josie: I love it. I love it. Yeah. And then with my stove too, I think the mirror trick and you talk about hanging a crystal to diffuse that energy.

[00:42:44] There's more details in your book about that. But that has helped me too with the stove, cause like you can't always move your stove, so we're just, you know, our backs are to the, you know, our back door that leads out to our backyard. But yeah, so I'm gonna put up some mirrors, but I have been keeping the stove area clear.

[00:43:00] I've been like storing the pots and pans instead of just letting them sit on the stove. And I've been like wiping down the stove much more than I used to and it does feel so much better, yeah. 

[00:43:12] Anjie: Yeah, absolutely. And there's like practical sides to this too. When you have a clean stove, your food is healthier. And then also you are attending and, and giving a lot of care to a place where you create food to nourish yourself. And, and I talk about my book, how it's a place where you create alchemy. You're making like you're cooking food, which is actually kind of a big, magical thing, right? 

[00:43:37] Josie: Yes, totally.

[00:43:39] Yeah. I love that. So will you explain what the Feng Shui Bagua mandala is and its origin story? I thought it was so beautiful reading about how that came about. 

[00:43:50] Anjie: So the bagua is a, I call it a mandala cause it is a mandala. But it's, and I think that's actually a better description than a map, but it's also sometimes called a feng shui map.

[00:44:06] And it's a three by three grid, but it can also be a pie, like a eight sectioned pie. Eight sliced pie. So and ba means eight, and gua means area direction or a kind of feeling, and it's one, one of the tools that we use in feng shui to read the energy of a home. So it can be overlaid like this mandala.

[00:44:41] Cause I've drawn, I've painted and studied mandala painting in the Vedic discipline and in the Tibetan Buddhist disciplines. Oh, cool. And it's this idea of a center that radiates out. And it also kind of gives us an understanding that there's this interconnectedness again, that we're connected to a center, that there's degrees of influence.

[00:45:08] And that they all connect with each other. So, so it's eight areas around a center. And the center represents health and wellbeing because it's the center. It's connected to all the different, eight directions or eight sections around it. And then each of the other areas represent different life experiences. 

[00:45:32] Different elements like the, from the Chinese five elements. Different shapes, colors and organs, body parts. Like so many, the list is infinite. So it's a tool that we use that we overlay on a home to give us information. And I don't not think I talk about where the bagua comes in the book, but it does come, I mean, I give this little story about like, qi, it starts with qi, which is one.

[00:46:08] And we could visualize like a seed that splits into that cracks open splits into two, like yin and yang, and then it could unfurl into the five elements, which then opens up further into the, the bagua. Like a lotus flower. But originally the story comes from legend where there was a tortoise that came out of the yellow river with the markings on its back, and this connects to the I Ching.

[00:46:37] And there is these trigram connections and number connections on the markings of the back of the tortoise. And then that later evolved into the I Ching and the trigrams and the bagua, which you know, they're all related. 

[00:46:52] Josie: Okay. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't know that story either. I just loved the visual of the seed, you know, as one and then breaking into two, and then that breaking up more. Was it into the five elements and then to the bagua, or was that, maybe the five elements weren't included. 

[00:47:09] Anjie: Maybe they weren't included, but it can't. But it's still like this unfolding because it's like, yeah. And that actual visual came to me when, last fall when I was in France and I was looking at an acorn and talking to my flower meditation teacher about, just about seeds and flowers and how, and also like where I am in my life. 

[00:47:32] Like, look, am I the acorn? Am I germinating? And then what are my teachers, like the elder branches that are now almost touching the ground? And how does this unfurl into the same thing, everything that we do in our life? So the bagua, that story of the bagua coming from like, the visual of the sea that breaks open and unfurls into a petal lotus flower. 

[00:47:58] We can look at that in so many different ways of our life, like from morning to night, can be that unfurling from in the, the seasons of the year can point to that unfurling the seasons of our life. As we grow older. All of those things are great metaphors and teachings for us. 

[00:48:16] Josie: I love that. I love that so much. Okay, so just to recap, the bagua, the feng shui bagua mandala or the, or the bagua map is what we use to overlay on a room or a space or rectangular area or a house. 

[00:48:34] Anjie: Oh, I didn't talk about that yet. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'll explain that. So it's in the book, but so most people who do know what the bagua map is, they maybe only know that they can apply it on their home. But. It can also be like a mandala, like there's a center and it expands. It can be expanded over your whole home, but it can even go further to cover your whole property.

[00:49:00] It could go further and encompass your whole neighborhood, your block, your city, so forth. And then it can also go smaller to just your bedroom. And then, or your office or smaller to just your desktop. Or your bed. And the reason why I created in my book, a bagua mandala overlaid on a bed.

[00:49:24] And, and also talked about it with the desk too. Is because, People don't have rectangular, don't always have rectangular shaped homes, but they usually have a rectangular shaped bed. So it was like my effort in hopes to give people something to that they can actually apply without needing me.

[00:49:49] Because one of my intentions too is not to be in any kind of role where people think I know more than them. And they need me to answer their questions because I can be a helpful guide and I have more experience, but, but I can't help everyone, every single individual. So, and what I found was people like stopped.

[00:50:11] They're like, I don't wanna do this, so I'm not gonna do anymore. But a lot of people have given me feedback like, oh. This bagua layout on the bed is really interesting and it, and it's actually very welcoming and it invites people to have curiosity about like what the bagua is. 

[00:50:30] And to see beyond like, oh it's, I don't just have to learn how to apply it to my house. Cuz so many people get really stuck on that. But how can I use this in a personal way? How can I use this in a way where I don't necessarily have to go to an expert? And how can I then maybe, maybe that'll open up more curiosity to learn how to, to actually lay it on the house.

[00:50:50] But there's lots of. Lots more to learn if you wanna lay it on a house, unless it's like, perfectly right. Like a, a rectangular shape. 

[00:50:58] Josie: Totally. Totally. Yeah. I found that so helpful. And then each sort of area in the bagua corresponds to like a certain area of life. So then you can kind of overlay that on something and, and use what you've learned, you know, in your book to make adjustments, you know, based on where it falls in the bagua.

[00:51:19] Yeah. 

[00:51:20] Anjie: Because in reality, the bagua teaches us also, like there's an orientation, there's a front, there's a back, there's a center. And where does a qi come in? Because it's oriented based on where the energy comes from. It's always oriented based on the primary door or the official formal front door of the space.

[00:51:40] Like for a bed, if the listeners are curious and they don't have the book, the bed would be the foot of the bed. But there's, there's already things that are in place in our reality in our world where something that's where the energy comes in and it's closest to the door is maybe related to more outward things, more external things like career.

[00:52:05] Whereas the furthest the, the guas or the areas of the furthest back are like your prosperity and your wealth or your, your primary relationship. And that's why those are positioned the furthest back from the, the bottom or the front of the bagua. 

[00:52:25] Josie: Okay. Oh, that's interesting. 

[00:52:27] Anjie: So there's many nuances. So if you start to kind of have curiosity, like why is this here? Why is that there? And what does that mean? And then how does that align with where the qi comes in? 

[00:52:39] Josie: Right, right. Oh, that makes so much sense. That's so interesting. 

[00:52:43] So I know a big question that is on people's minds who are listening is what do folks do from a feng shui perspective to increase conception, chances of conception or to begin a fertility journey or to have a positive outcome from a fertility journey?

[00:53:00] Anjie: So I think one of the first things that we always say when there's like a physical health, it's kind of like a physical health concern, right? So for any kind of physical health thing, it's always important to not only rely on something esoteric like feng shui, right? To always consult with medical practitioners.

[00:53:21] But there are things that you can do in conjunction, in tandem. So again, always connecting the heaven and earth invisible and the visible. Like seeing that these are not disconnected. But you can look at your home. So I would definitely make sure your bed is in commanding position. So you're not adding that extra level of fight or flight in when you're sleeping.

[00:53:43] So you can, your body can rejuvenate while you're sleeping and you can heal. I would also say the same probably for the stove and the desk. Because when, if you're not in command, while you're cooking at your stove, you're, I talk about this in the book, but you can actually be putting fear into the food that you, that you're, you're cooking food and you're stirring and all your good qi. 

[00:54:09] But then if there's this level of fear, you're also kind of stirring in that fear, which may be a hindrance to conception creating new life. In the bedroom, there's a few things that, like in general that are kind of mundane. We call them mundane adjustments to do like, which might kind of sound weird, but you're not supposed to clean under your bed.

[00:54:32] Yeah, so you're not supposed to clean under your bed because there's ling particles. They say l i n g ling particles that ideally, so this is regardless if you wanna conceive or not. You ideally wanna have space. All around you when you're sleeping. So you don't wanna have like a platform bed or, or a lot of storage under your bed or like a storage bed.

[00:54:53] That's not ideal. I mean, if that's what you have, that's a different conversation. But ideally you wanna have the qi flow around you smoothly to nourish you while you're sleeping. And then you don't wanna clean all the dust bunnies under your bed. I mean, within reason. But the idea is you want the ling particles to collect under your bed, because that's where the new baby can come from.

[00:55:16] The ling particles. The ling particle goes into the fertilized egg, I guess, and creates life. So don't clean under your bed. And then also ideally cause your bed, your, sorry, your home represents your body. So it's like the walls are your skin and I talk about this in like the different organs, but there's also a lot of different nuances.

[00:55:40] Like your nervous system is like your electrical system, your lymphatic system, and your urinary systems are like the plumbing. So you wanna make sure everything is in working order, but you do not want to do any construction on your home while you're trying to conceive.

[00:55:56] And especially, you do not want to do any construction in your home if you are concerned about holding the baby, right? Not losing, losing the. 

[00:56:07] Josie: Maintaining the pregnancy. 

[00:56:09] Anjie: Maintaining the pregnancy. So if there's a concern about maintaining the pregnancy, this is especially something to pay attention to is to not do any kind of structural work in your home, because that's actually like doing surgery on your body while you're holding a pregnancy. Right? 

[00:56:28] Josie: Right. Interesting. 

[00:56:29] Anjie: Yes. And if you work with a qualified feng shui practitioner, there's also like, especially like a b, I study and teach BTB feng shui. There are specific, what we call transcendental adjustments that can only be really passed from practitioner to client, or teacher to student that someone can offer. But they're really convoluted and I've given that to people and no one's done it. 

[00:56:52] So it's like getting a rice bowl, leaving the rice bowl dirty under the bed, like putting in lotus fruit or lotus seeds and all this stuff. But there's also a sense of calling in the yin energy, the mother energy as well, like Quan Yin, which is the goddess of compassion, which is also Quan Yin, is like also non-binary. 

[00:57:15] So it's not just goddess, but Quan Yin is in feng shui, we use Quan Yin to bring in the quality of the moon. And so you could also explore yin, the yin qi of the moon, and ask for help and support from Quan Yin. And I think that's the main thing is like, don't clean under the bed. And don't do construction. 

[00:57:43] Josie: And don't go do construction, that's, yeah. 

[00:57:45] Anjie: And then people could also activate, there's an area of the bagua map and if you have my book you can use, it'd probably be really helpful to actually do it on your bed. And if you can in your bed, this area of the bedroom, and this area in your house. So on three levels. 

[00:58:03] But there's an area that's called dui, which is related to completion and children. So that one can be activated or you could also maybe activate new beginnings as well. Maybe those two. Actually, maybe those two areas. Dui and Zhen. So Zhen is new beginnings and that's family.

[00:58:23] And then also activate dui, which is children and completion. So it's like spring and fall because they have to work in tandem. For new light, you need something to end in order for something to begin and you need something to begin in order for something to end and those feed each other.

[00:58:39] Josie: Right. Oh, that's so interesting. I'm glad you said that cuz as I was reading your book, I was thinking, huh, would people use that one or this one because yeah, they both seemed related to creating a family. So that's, yeah. 

[00:58:51] Anjie: That's a good question. Like, I wonder what you would think from your background from a Chinese medicine perspective, because these are equivalent to wood and yang wood and yin metal. Those two areas. And so I wonder like some people maybe need more, more metal. And some people may need more wood. 

[00:59:11] Josie: Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah. They could really zero in on one or the other depending on what's going on with their physical, you know, patterns in, in terms of five elements.

[00:59:23] Anjie: Yeah. And there's also actually another area, which is the relationship area. It's also, it's called Kun. It's related to the mother. And so it's also the reproductive system and, so that's also maybe an area that one could activate on their bed for support. 

[00:59:43] And so I think it would be probably helpful if someone's who's looking to conceive and they may be having some obstacles just to see like, where are those obstacles coming from? Like is it from like, you know, is it connected to the reproductive area? Then maybe that position needs support. 

[01:00:02] Josie: Right, totally. And, and it's like, are we having trouble getting this started then? Then you would go to the, new beginnings. 

[01:00:10] Anjie: Yes, new beginnings. Yes. 

[01:00:11] Josie: Yeah. Are we having problems like bringing this in, you know, to complete it then, you know, go to that completion area or is it more of a reproductive issue than exactly go to that other area. And in terms of the word mother and mothering, that could really apply to any gender. It's just that, that energy of, of mothering. 

[01:00:30] Anjie: Right, right. Because it has, it has nothing to do with the gender. It just means that it's. Well, it does in a sense that it also relates to your mother. But it's also giving life to something. And it's,yin Earth actually. So yin earth is the receptive. So if one looked at the I Ching, it's like the receptive, it's like three yin lines. It's, and it's like the shape of a bowl. 

[01:00:57] Josie: Okay. Oh, I love that. That's so cool. Oh, this is so interesting. Yeah. And for all of you who are like, what are you talking about? Just get Anjie's book. 

[01:01:08] Anjie: Sorry, are we getting too esoteric? 

[01:01:10] Josie: No, no. I, I'm following, and this all makes sense, but I know that if someone's new to Feng Shui, then it may be like, wait, what is this?

[01:01:19] You know, what are these different terms?

[01:01:20] Anjie: Oh, well, we could say, well, what would, if you had to pick one area that most people may you think may need to work with on their bed, Or should I just point out all three areas or do you think one of them would be more helpful? 

[01:01:34] Josie: No, I think all three are really good, yeah. 

[01:01:37] Anjie: Okay. So the way that you explained to Josie is, so if someone, like, if they're the issues conceiving, have a lot to do with actual reproductive issues, like physical issues or maybe, maybe it's also wanting to be, wanting to be a mother or to be to mother something too much or too little or having like some kind of obstacles around that, if that's it.

[01:02:03] And also like being more receptive to it. Then that would be the relationship or the relationship area of the bagua map. And if that, if you were gonna lay that on your bed, so you would be standing at the foot of your bed. Divide your bed into a three by three grid, like a tic-tac toe.

[01:02:20] And it's a far right corner of the bed by the headboard on the right side if you're standing at the foot of your bed looking. And then we were talking about if things need to get started, you just really wanna get, like, you need help getting this stuff started, getting, getting things in motion.

[01:02:39] And you need that energy for that. That could be the new beginnings area, which is related to family. And on the bagua map, it's also green. The relationship area is pink. The green area. So if you're at your bed, you're standing at the foot of your bed and you, you have that three by three grid in front of you, the center, the left side in the middle.

[01:03:02] Is that area that you would work with. And then if it for new beginnings. It's for new beginnings. And if you need to like really have things complete, or if you really wanna like activate children, which is kind of a good one to activate in general, if you're not sure about the other two. That area is white on the Baggo map. And if you're standing at the foot of your bed and you looking at the three by three grid, The left side in the middle. 

[01:03:26] Josie: The right. Oh, isn't it the right side? Sorry. 

[01:03:28] Anjie: The right side. The right side. I'm a little bit, get the right, left next up. So yeah, sorry. The right side in the middle, but you're following so good. And then Cause I have to like think about it while I'm talking. And so then someone, your listeners might say, well, but okay, yeah, I know. Now what do I do?

[01:03:46] So you could use the color, like the simplest thing, if you're not gonna get the book or do anything more, you could use the color of that bagua area to activate it. So you could put like something pink. For a reproductive thing. You could put something green if you need the energy to get things started. Or you can use white if you just want to activate children and, get this completed. 

[01:04:16] And put something of that color, like let's say a crystal of that color in that area, underneath your mattress. So it could go under your mattress, between your bed frame. In your bed frame, or it could go like on the floor underneath. Okay. And I wouldn't do all three areas. I would just pick one.

[01:04:37] And so pink would be the far right corner. Green would be the middle left side. And the white would be the middle right side. 

[01:04:46] Josie: Okay. Love that. That's so simple. 

[01:04:49] Anjie: Hopefully people will follow that. Yes. 

[01:04:50] Josie: I love that. Thank you. I was thinking too, with the relationship area, the pink area, I think for queer folks, especially sometimes that can be charged, you mentioned like the relationship with your own mother.

[01:05:02] I know, you know, a lot of queer folks I work with who are trying to start families with maybe not necessarily the support of their family. And maybe having some concerns there about starting a family and bringing another person into this dynamic and maybe not having that support of, you know, closer or extended family.

[01:05:23] So there can definitely be some, you know, energetic blockages there for queer folks in particular. So that's a good one to activate. 

[01:05:31] Anjie: Yeah, I think so too. 

[01:05:33] Josie: So how can people find you and support you and buy all your things? 

[01:05:38] Anjie: Well, my book, Mindful Homes is available wherever books are sold. I also have my first book called Holistic Spaces available and also wherever books are sold.

[01:05:50] And I teach Feng Shui, a Feng shui practitioners training program at mindfuldesignschool.com. I own that school with my business partner, Laura, and we train Feng Shu practitioners. We also have a podcast called The Holistic Spaces Podcast. To learn more about Feng shui. 

[01:06:10] Josie: Okay, great. And I will include all those things in the show notes for folks. All right, Anjie. Well thank you so much for being on here today. I learned so much. I was like, I've already learned so much from you, from your book and I learned even more today. So thank you so much. 

[01:06:24] Anjie: You're welcome. And it was so fun talking to you cause you, as a acupuncturist and Chinese medicine practitioner, you know what I'm talking about. So this is not new to you, but I really appreciate that you're offering this for people to understand wherever they're coming from. 

[01:06:43] Josie: Yes, absolutely. Aw, thank you.

[01:06:48] Thanks for listening to the Intersectional Fertility podcast. To get customized fertility recommendations based on your Whole Self Fertility Method element, join my mailing list at intersectionalfertility.com and get immediate access to my two minute quiz. 

[01:07:06] If you like the show and want to hear more, tap, subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and please leave us a review. It really, truly helps. The Intersectional Fertility Podcast is hosted by me, Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier, and produced by Rozarie Productions with original music by Jen Korte.

All content offered through The Intersectional Fertility Podcast is created for informational purposes only, it is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.