Episode 53 - Marea Goodman and Ray Rachlin: Expanding Family Building Resources for LGBTQ+ and Solo Parents

Marea Goodman (she/her/they) and Ray Rachlin (she/they) are queer midwives and co-authors of the upcoming guide book: Baby Making for Everybody - Fertility and Family Building for LGBTQ+ and Solo Parents. In today's conversation, the co-authors sit with Josie to discuss how the systems providing fertility care are not built for queer or solo parents, and how accessible resources are needed to provide support for these communities.

[ID: A beige background and orange semi-circle. Text reads: The Intersectional Fertility Podcast Episode 53: Ray Rachlin and Marea Goodman @refugemidwifery and @restore_midwifery and Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier @intersectionalfertility.]

The book will cover reflections for setting intentions behind family building, choosing donors, surrogacy, fertility and trans fertility, timing, fostering and adoption, early pregnancy, infertility and miscarriage, and more.

Baby Making for Everybody is expected to release on April 25th, 2023. Preorder the book here.

Check out Ray's practice Refuge Midwifery: Website and Instagram.

Check out Marea's practice Restore Midwifery: Instagram.

To Schedule Individual Appointments with Marea.

Pregnant Together Membership Site and Instagram.

Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: This is an automatically generated transcript edited to be more readable. It may not be 100% accurate.

[00:00:00] Josie: I am Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier, and this is the Intersectional Fertility Podcast, where ideas and identities intersect to deepen our understanding of fertility, and ultimately our Whole Selves.

[00:00:32] Hi, friend. I wanted to let you know that registration is open for my five week online program called Fertile. Fertile is a queer, trans and non-binary centered five week online program for folks with wombs to reclaim power over their fertility journey and conceive using my Whole Self Fertility Method.

[00:00:58] Healthcare practitioners are welcome to join as well and become certified in the Whole Self Fertility Method. There is an economic justice sliding scale for all, whether you are taking the program to try to conceive, or whether you are a healthcare practitioner wanting to become certified in the Whole Self Fertility Method, you can utilize the sliding scale.

[00:01:20] And there are scholarships available for Black, Indigenous, and People of the Global Majority. Also, if you'd like to do a payment plan, you can email me, josie@intersectionalfertility.com, and we'll set that up for you. To register and to learn more details, go to my website, intersectionalfertility.com/fertile, and as soon as you register it, you'll get access to all of the content.

[00:01:47] So you can go through it as quickly or as slowly as that works for you, and you'll have access to everything for a year. And if you need longer, just ask. So our live sessions begin in April. April 19th is our first live session, and we'll have a live session for one hour every week for five weeks, starting on April 19th. So if you register now, you can start going through all of the content and then get all of your questions answered by the time it's time for us to meet live over Zoom. 

[00:02:22] So I wanna read a couple testimonials today from the program. One is from Nico, who's a family medicine physician and spends their time between Savannah and Los Angeles.

[00:02:37] "As a family medicine physician, I found the content greatly insightful, accessible, and amplified my capacity to offer more comprehensive care to my patients. While the content is fertility centered, the teachings and guidance is far more pervasive and relevant to anyone searching to feel more healthy, whole, nurtured and empowered."

[00:03:00] I loved that one. Thank you, Nico. And I also wanted to read one from Jovan Sage, also from Savannah, actually. 

[00:03:08] They said, "I feel more connected and energized. I loved the video and handouts. It made it so easy to keep up with the information and bring it into my life. The Accupressure points were so useful. I feel that everything was so accessible. This program was a great reinforcement of what I know from my own food and fertility journey. But being grounded in the elements and traditional Chinese medicine, it hit in a deeper way. 

[00:03:34] "This is valuable for my personal fertility in a way that isn't dependent on me planning to get pregnant. I would definitely recommend Fertile because the material was so impactful and the group container is so nourishing." Thank you, Jovan. All right. Again, to read the details and register, go to intersectionalfertility.com/fertile. All right on with the show.

[00:03:57] Marea Goodman, she/her/they, is a licensed midwife specializing in pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and conception care for the LGBTQ+ community. Marea is the co-author of the book Baby Making for Everybody - Fertility and Family Building for the LGBTQ+ and Solo Parents, and the founder of the awesome online membership community Pregnant Together, which empowers and connects people who are trying to conceive, pregnant, and postpartum. She lives in Santa Cruz with her three children and her wife, Andrea, who is also a midwife. 

[00:04:41] Ray Rachlin, she/they, is a certified professional midwife and licensed midwife providing home birth, midwifery care, fertility, and home IUI Care and community education throughout the greater Philadelphia area and South Jersey. Ray founded Refuge Midwifery in 2017 to create a home for families not served by our current healthcare system. 

[00:05:04] Ray is also the other co-author of the upcoming book, Baby Making for Everybody - Fertility and Family Building for LGBTQ+ and Solo Parents, coming April, 2023. In addition to their midwifery practice, Ray has been immersed in promoting affirming reproductive care for transgender patients and has taught midwives, doctors, nurses, and birth professionals throughout the country on trans-inclusive fertility, birth, and postpartum. Ray lives with her family in Philadelphia. 

[00:05:37] Welcome you two. 

[00:05:39] Marea: Thank you. Thanks for having us. 

[00:05:41] Ray: Yes. Thanks for having us. 

[00:05:42] Josie: Absolutely. Of course. So where are you both joining us from today? I know you're in different spots. 

[00:05:49] Marea: I'm in Santa Cruz, California. 

[00:05:51] Josie: Okay. And that's Marea.

[00:05:53] Ray: Yeah, and I'm in West Philadelphia.

[00:05:55] Josie: West Philadelphia. Okay, cool. 

[00:05:57] Marea: Where are you? 

[00:05:58] Josie: I'm in Colorado. 

[00:06:00] Marea: Nice. 

[00:06:01] Josie: So I would love to hear from both of you, your story that led you to become a midwife, whoever wants to go first. 

[00:06:09] Ray: I can go. I knew I wanted a career in politics when I was younger. I was a non-union carpenter and injured myself on the job and got fired. Then I got really involved in the labor movement, was working as a labor organizer. Then the union I was working for tried to fire us all temporarily. 

[00:06:33] I then was organizing my own unit and we were crushed and I was like, oh, I wanna do something that like is more tangible in supporting people. So I didn't know being a doula was a job, but I was like, I just wanna learn how to support people, this is a mess. So I signed up for a doula training and it was life changing. 

[00:06:53] Like, oh this is so much more tangible. The connection of the personal is political. And you just provide this arc of support and it changes things. And that really resonated with me. So then I was in New York City, I started to go to births as a doula, and about a year into being a doula, I went to my first home birth and it was like a light bulb turned on where I was like, I'm doing the wrong job. 

[00:07:18] And I didn't realize this, just how all these like little things or big things that happen in a hospital system just kind of add up to the pregnant person having to work around the needs of the system instead of the care provider working around the needs of the pregnant person. And just like the simplicity of the midwife, like bending over to listen to the baby's heart tones instead of the person having to like get back on the bed or just these like logistical things that end up being disempowerment in a lot of ways.

[00:07:46] Birth looked completely different than anything I'd ever seen before. So I was like, oh, I need to do that job. And it took a few years of doula-ing to figure out what pathway of midwifery I wanted to do. I still was like, you know, young and gay, so, you know, understanding like queer fertility was a long ways off.

[00:08:03] But you know, like the idea of like accidentally getting pregnant was like still like, you know, a long ways off of my brain. But after a few years, I realized that becoming a certified professional midwife and doing exclusively home birth was where I was at because I wanted to like build the alternative and create power outside the system and then use that to challenge systems to create bigger change. 

[00:08:26] And of course this was before the Affordable Care Act, so it looked a little bit different when I went to school. And then when I was in midwifery school I moved out from my home in New York City to the West Coast. 

[00:08:39] I was so fortunate that there was a few queer midwives and queer midwifery students who were a little bit further ahead of me that introduced me to the world of trans-inclusive care and what our community needs in terms of fertility care. More light bulbs went off and I just kind of kept diving deeper and that's what I've been doing ever since. 

[00:08:58] Josie: Wow. And you've been doing it for a while. How long? 

[00:09:02] Ray: Yeah, I graduated in 2016. So I'm like realizing yeah, that I'm like not a baby midwife anymore and I've been practicing now for almost seven years.

[00:09:10] Josie: Yeah, totally. Totally, wow, that's so cool. How about you, Marea? 

[00:09:16] Marea: Yeah, definitely some parallels. Ray and I often joke that we have like very parallel midwifery practices on opposite coasts. For me, I was lucky to be invited to the home birth of a friend of mine, my senior year of college, and I did a doula training just to be prepared for that.

[00:09:39] And she ended up having this gorgeous, amazing, empowering home birth. I was like, oh, this is it. So then I started taking doula clients and doing a lot of hospital births and seeing over and over, how, what seemed like these perfectly normal physiological births kind of got derailed by the hospital system. 

[00:10:05] After about a year of that, and I was doing some admin work at a local birth center. Actually the midwife who was my friend's midwife called me out of the blue and was like, Hey, my apprentice just quit. I need an apprentice. Are you available? And I was like, yes. So that was 2012. I got licensed in 2015, after working with a couple of midwives in the Bay Area and yeah, spent some time working at birth centers outside of the state. 

[00:10:36] And then I founded my practice restore midwifery in 2016. Around that time too, I also learned how to do IUI, intrauterine inseminations from, she was a friend at the time, but is now my partner, Andrea Ruizquez. Yeah, her practice is Partera Midwifery. So she taught me how to do IUI. 

[00:11:00] And then, as a queer person, there weren't a lot of midwives at the time who were like, I'm queer and I wanna support the queer community. There are a lot of queer midwives, but they weren't necessarily as open about it as I decided to be, and just have loved supporting people in my community and like trying to make this information more accessible and empowering. And create safe space for queer people around fertility, and family building, and giving birth that, that we really need and deserve. 

[00:11:38] Josie: Yeah, totally. Oh, that's so cool. I love that story. 

[00:11:43] So I would love to talk about your book, I can't wait for it to get here. I really want it in my hands. I love the title, it's called Baby Making for Everybody - Fertility and Family Building for LGBTQ+ and Solo Parents. I like that you included solo parents. What was the impetus for writing this book and writing it together?

[00:12:04] Ray: Yeah, well, as Marea said, we've kind of had parallel practices on opposite coasts. I started my practice in 2017 and I guess it was the fall of 2020. We both started queer conception story projects and I think like we had both been seeing like similar things in our practices, which is just that there's a profound lack of resources for queer people and you know, people who are pursuing solo parenthood. 

[00:12:33] It's cause the systems aren't designed for us. And so what people do is they use storytelling to share wisdom. And so Marea was like, I'm gonna start an anthology. And I had just started a blog, Queer Conception Stories. Marea and I only knew each other, kind of vaguely through Instagram, like maybe had messaged a few times, it turns out we have a couple of overlapping friends, the queer birth world is small. 

[00:13:00] Marea reached out to me and was like, hey, I'm doing this anthology, maybe we should team up and work together. And I was like, yes, definitely. And at some point we were like, we probably should include a few chapters on how to get pregnant because we're midwives and we know how to do that. 

[00:13:16] Marea had I don't know exactly, this person kind of helping advise them on how to write a book. And we met with her and she was just like, the way book publishing works is you can't have a half anthology, half guide book you need to choose. We were like, oh, I guess we should write a guide book. 

[00:13:36] Because there, at the time there wasn't a like an updated like "how to get pregnant" book for like 15 years. And now we're not, you know, trailblazers, other books have been coming out. Our community is ready and needs this literature and also deserves, you know, many, many books on this subject. 

[00:13:56] But we were like, I guess we can write a guidebook. Like, yeah, we talk about this stuff all the time professionally. And, didn't quite know what we were getting ourselves into, but it's been a journey. Two and a half, three years later we're here.

[00:14:13] Marea: We both conceived children and gave birth during that time. 

[00:14:20] Josie: Wow, yeah. And also, I'm sure the book feels like another child. 

[00:14:27] Marea: Yeah, it was a gestation for sure. And I think it'll feel more like a birth when it's out.

[00:14:34] Josie: Yeah. I love that both of you have become, like you were saying, Marea, like you decided to be really out about your midwifery services and really like obvious about supporting the queer community. Rather than just like a midwife who happens to be queer. I love that. And then really distilling that into a book together that's just so, so needed. And like you said, Ray, we need many books on this topic. So true.

[00:15:02] And was that kind of a similar story on your end, Marea, of how the book came to be? 

[00:15:07] Marea: I would tell it very similarly. And I feel so grateful that Ray and I, we really worked together super well. And we just kind of separated the chapters and each of us wrote one and then we would edit each other's, and I feel like we've had like a very smooth work relationship. Which I feel really, really grateful for. Cause I know not everybody is compatible in those ways and it just happened to feel easy for us. I hope you still agree, Ray. 

[00:15:38] Ray: I do. I feel so fortunate that this random midwife I met on Instagram has turned out to be a dear friend. And also we have really complimentary like skills when it comes to writing a book because Mariah really offers like this like soft, warm, enveloping thing. And I bring this like, Anxious New York Jew, like, here's so much data. And I think I would write a book that would be too stressful on my own, like to read, but together, we really, I feel so proud of what we've done. 

[00:16:08] Josie: Oh, I love that. It sounds like you two balance each other out really well.

[00:16:14] Marea: Yeah, we do. 

[00:16:15] Josie: Yeah, that's so cute. So will you walk us through like how the book is structured and how one can use it? 

[00:16:23] Marea: So we start with introducing ourselves and just placing ourselves in the book, like who we are and how we came to write it, and then the first chapter, which I really love, is supporting people to figure out their why. Like why they wanna become parents, figuring out some priorities. We talk about climate change as well, like kind of just like situating this whole decision of growing your family emotionally. 

[00:16:51] Before kind of getting into the nitty gritty of the logistics of how to do it. And throughout the book we tried to include like reflection questions and there's some places to write down things and we encourage people to do that themselves and if they have a partner for each of them to do that separately, just to kind of have support in thinking about this.

[00:17:12] Cause there's like, there's a lot to think about. We believe it's a blessing and a curse as queer people without easy access to all of the gametes you need to create a pregnancy. It's a blessing and a curse because it's challenging. It can be expensive. There's a lot of logistics to consider. 

[00:17:33] But the blessing part is that we get to bring a lot of intention into our families. And I think that that impacts our families and our children in really beautiful ways. So we wanna just, help people start there. Then we talk about choosing donors, egg donors or sperm donors and how that works, how sperm banks work, known donors, anonymous donors, all of that stuff.

[00:17:58] We talk a little about surrogacy and chapter two. In chapter three, we talk about fertility specifically, well the bulk of the chapter is for people with uteruses, but we also talk about ways to improve sperm health and help people kind of understand their cycle and their bodies and how to kind of optimize their fertility.

[00:18:19] Chapter four, we go through timing and looking at the different insemination options and how to figure out your ideal timing. Chapter five is all about trans fertility. For people who are considering going off of gender affirming hormone therapy, all the things to consider how that applies to trans bodies.

[00:18:43] Then in chapter six we talk about fostering and adoption and how people grow their families in those ways. Chapter Seven's about early pregnancy. We covered a lot of ground in this book. As I'm going through, I'm like, wow, we did a lot. And then chapter eight, which is one of the chapters that I feel most proud of is infertility and miscarriage because it's something that many people go through and we really wanted to like be very out about that process and offer resources and support. 

[00:19:17] Then chapter nine's about like the legal formation stuff around family and also building resilience and support like legally and also within our own communities for our families. And then I believe chapter 10 is just like a bunch of resources for people all over the country and different groups. And also organizations that offer financial support for families. 

[00:19:43] Josie: Oh my gosh, how thick is this book? I'm picturing like a dictionary. 

[00:19:48] Marea: Oh my gosh. I even have an early reader copy somewhere, yeah. 

[00:19:51] Ray: It's not crazy. 

[00:19:53] Marea: It's not. 

[00:19:53] Josie: It's like an inch and a half?

[00:19:56] Marea: It's a normal sized like Novelish book. 

[00:19:59] Josie: Okay, wow. I mean each one of those chapters could be its own book. 

[00:20:04] Marea: Yeah. We really tried to make it not overwhelming and like easily digestible. And one thing that we learned cuz we'd never written a book before is like we tried as much as we could to put ourselves in our readers shoes. We know there's a lot of information, so we just tried to streamline it. We have like some decision trees. We also include a lot of stories from community members about their own experiences to bring other perspectives in. Yeah. We really tried to make it digestible.

[00:20:38] Ray: Yeah. Almost like we are your midwife and we are just like talking to you in your living room about your options in a non-judgmental way. And just trying to help create the space for you to explore, like what are your priorities in conceiving? What pathway is right for you? What happens if you need to diverge from the path that you decided was right for you and make different decisions? And offer like non-judgmental support for all of the ways that we build our families and the things that we have to consider when pursuing those paths. 

[00:21:07] Josie: Right. Oh, amazing. Gosh, it seems like you hit on all the points that people feel so overwhelmed by when they start this process of just like, Researching sperm and figuring that all out. And then like the legal side of it for queer folks. And it's just like all these different words, like in a cis het world, you know, like, none of that is included. 

[00:21:30] Marea: So much to figure out. Yeah, I think we both feel really in touch with that and as queer parents, we also know what the experience is like in our own bodies, and we share some of that. You know, it's not just like we're medical providers, so we have power and we know everything. It's like, it's a very collaborative approach. Yeah. 

[00:21:55] Josie: Yeah. And from your own lived experience as well. 

[00:21:59] Ray: Yeah. I think it was really probably both of our lived experiences of trying to become queer parents. That was the like, Oh, we need more resources. Like this is going from us like, you know, being in this unique position of being like out queer midwives and just like being like kind of general community support, to being like, this isn't enough. 

[00:22:16] We need books, we need institutions, we need insurance coverage. This is the beginning of like what we can offer in terms of like creating an infrastructure that's designed around the needs of queer families by bringing up awareness and like literature about what we actually need. 

[00:22:34] Josie: Yeah, absolutely. Do each of you have a favorite part of the book? 

[00:22:39] Ray: Good question. So I have been teaching a class called Beyond the Baster for a few years now, and like I love walking people through the, like, this is what's happening in the cycle and this is how you figure out ovulation because it is like this big mystery.

[00:22:59] And people go to doctors to get blood tests and it's like, actually this information is available to us. And it's like very interesting for like, you know, a lot, most people with uteruses were never taught like exactly how their bodies work and to like create this like support where like the lights turn on we're like, oh.

[00:23:16] I think I can get that information. And like, yeah, I can like understand what's happening in my body and even if I decide to interact in a very medicalized approach to conception, I can still know what's happening and be an active part of decision making. I love helping facilitate that for people. Getting to distill that into the book was a lot harder than I thought and I feel really proud of not making it scary. 

[00:23:40] Josie: Yeah, totally. And I think too, like the resources that do exist, I'm thinking of taking charge of your fertility, is so gendered. And so we need these resources that already exist also, told in a way that doesn't feel harmful, as queer folks or as trans folks.

[00:24:00] Marea: Totally, yeah. Along those lines, I think there's like a four or five pages in the tracking your fertility section where we walk people through how to find their cervix with a speculum. And that was so fun to write and imagine all the details and like really try to make it easy and accessible. 

[00:24:18] Josie: Wow, that's so cool. Yeah I find that with my patients too, that that's really a point where folks get confused is the timing of it. Then you have to wait a whole ‘nother cycle if you don't get the timing right. So it just, it drags out time, money, resources. 

[00:24:40] Marea: Emotional resources. We talk a lot about the two week wait and how to navigate that anxiety or those questions. 

[00:24:47] Josie: Yeah, totally. What do each of you think is the most necessary information in this book that's missing or inaccessible to the LGBTQ+ community and single folks in terms of family building? 

[00:25:02] Ray: I think it's about the restoration of choice. Because the system is not designed for us, every avenue of creating family feels like you're hacking or you're doing something a little subversive or you're like adopting your own child. Or you go to like a fertility clinic and you like land up in this really medicalized process, which some people desire and need, but it's just not designed for us.

[00:25:30] And so how do we start to like, kind of come back to the basics of being like, our families are right, our families are perfect, our children are so loved and wanted and desired. And this process sucks a bit. But how do we find ourselves and like center like our needs as an individual trying to pursue creating a family through parenting or as you know, partners, like how do we come back to our values and like make our decisions from there.

[00:25:59] Whatever path that takes us on, how do we tap into our center in decision making? So we don't kind of have that same like getting swept up by this or that or the other. Or just, you know, getting like totally lost on a fertility clinic website.

[00:26:14] Just being like, how do people choose, right? Coming back to our center and then like just knowing all of your options so then you can make the decisions that are like right for you and your family. 

[00:26:27] Josie: I know, cause like folks will get lumped into like being assumed infertile, or being assumed having subfertility when it's like, no, I'm just queer.

[00:26:37] Ray: Yeah. And like we just don't have standards of care for queer people. And so some fertility clinics do maybe what a midwife would do home IUI wise, most are doing a full infertility workup. Some people are getting straight into medicated IUI, which, you know, has a much higher risk of twins, which is not low risk for your body.

[00:26:58] It's just like, what would it look like if we had an open-ended conversation from the get-go? And since the fertility clinic might not offer that open-ended conversation, like we're gonna offer that for you. So then you can ask like really good questions when you seek care. Or you can learn that like you might wanna pursue IUI with a midwife, or that actually a known donor is what resonates most with you.

[00:27:21] Then how do I go about finding a known donor? And how do I protect my family, you know, sexual health wise, legally? And like, develop these like beautiful but complex relationships when the person who donates genetic material is also a part of our lives. 

[00:27:38] Just like creating space for all of those conversations about, you know, donation, surrogacy. And how to navigate medical systems and legal systems that are just like not designed around our needs. I know I had a conversation with a former client of mine who's also quoted in the book about how they hate Second Parent adoption so much.

[00:28:00] They're like, this is not what we need. Like, this is BS. It's not even like a hack. It's like we're just trying to lie to the system because of X, Y, and Z. And I was like, yeah. Why are we adopting our own children? And it's like, cuz we, because the system just really isn't designed for us and we're doing the best we can to protect ourselves right now.

[00:28:22] And hopefully that's gonna continue to change. Yeah. But we're not like really in a legal climate that like is, or political climate that's really thrilled with LGBTQ people right now. So I think we're still gonna have to continue to rely on our community and the ways that we've been hacking the system to create our protect our families.

[00:28:39] Josie: Yeah, totally. 

[00:28:41] Marea: Well said. 

[00:28:43] Josie: Very well said. Yeah. Yeah. How about you, Marea? Do you have a favorite part? 

[00:28:48] Marea: Well, I mentioned that I feel really proud of chapter eight, miscarriage and infertility, because it just feels really real and really honest. And I think we also, you know, mentioned like, yeah, if reading this is not supportive to you, if it's gonna create more anxiety than good, like you can skip it.

[00:29:06] And also for, you know, a, a portion of people, this is gonna be like part of the story and I think we did a good job throughout the book, like bringing a sense of community and support, cuz it's not just about the logistics and the legal paperwork and, deciding on the donor. It's like just bringing the whole person and the whole family and the, the whole experience into the process. 

[00:29:36] And yeah, I think those conversations are important. I think those conversations need to happen from a queer and trans lens because so many of the resources that exist on miscarriage, and infertility right now are so gendered. And so yeah, I feel proud of bringing that information in a way that that will hopefully be like supportive to our communities through the good and the bad and the whole experience of growing families.

[00:30:09] Cause yeah, it's so like rich and intense and profound and, you know, sometimes can be really easy and straightforward and other times can take a really long time and be kind of a rollercoaster. We really did see ourselves as like long distance midwives to people reading the book and like really trying to bring that feeling of support to it.

[00:30:32] Josie: That's so cool. I can feel it already even though I haven't read it. 

[00:30:36] Marea: So sweet. 

[00:30:37] Josie: And I realized, Marea, I asked you the wrong question. It was not what your favorite part of the book was, but if you felt like there was necessary information in the book that's missing or inaccessible? Would you answer that the same way? 

[00:30:52] Marea: I would, I would answer that the same.

[00:30:55] Josie: Yeah, that makes sense. Do either of you think you'll be writing more books? 

[00:31:02] Marea: I really want to, Ray just gave birth two months ago. 

[00:31:07] Josie: Oh wow. Only two months ago. 

[00:31:09] Marea: So I'm like holding myself back on being like, let's write three more books together. . But that's kind of my jam is like thinking way too far ahead and being too excited about ideas.

[00:31:19] Ray: Yeah, this process of writing a book with Marea has been pretty magical. When we got our book deal we did kind of talk a lot about if we would have kind of a queer midwives guide to pregnancy. And I told Marea I'd like to get through my first year with a child and then maybe dive into that. 

[00:31:44] But yeah. I think the answer is yes, more to come and also, this is the first like book we've birthed together. And yeah, there's just been so much learning along the way and we kind of can totally keep riding that train. 

[00:32:01] Josie: Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Two months postpartum. That is, that is very fresh. Do either of you have any words of encouragement or advice for queer, trans, or non-binary folks with wombs who are trying to conceive in our cishet world, as you know, it can be discouraging at best and harmful or violent at worst, and especially for Black, Indigenous, and People of the Global Majority.

[00:32:28] So yeah, I would love to hear any words of advice. 

[00:32:31] Ray: I think it's about finding your community. Whether there's a really robust community of like queer and trans people who are trying to conceive online, on Facebook, on Reddit, rainbow families and family quality, like have virtual gatherings, doulas and other birth workers host in-person stuff.

[00:32:52] So like my practice Refuge Midwifery like we host. An LGBTQ trying to get pregnant, pregnant, new babies gathering. It was every other month before the pandemic. Now it's like when it's nice out so we can be outside. So next one's coming in April. 

[00:33:08] We need our community, we need the stories of people who have been through this before or like folks to text during the two week wait. And then also I always like to give the reminder that because of how expensive sperm is or just like some of the logistics, it can give people the feeling of being infertile before they even start trying.

[00:33:29] And that's just not how it is. Some people will have trouble conceiving, but you know, like start with the assumption of health and wellbeing and also hold space for the, that this is a process. It's a process that has more information in it, that has more logistics in it. And creates such awesome loving families. 

[00:33:50] And also, just like knowing that the like anxiety and the isolation is not this unique experience that you're having. It's a really shared experience from other people with uteruses who are trying to conceive and lack sperm in their relationship. 

[00:34:05] And just trying to find ways to connect to be less alone. Also remember that feeling like you have infertility because of all these logistics, or cuz you went to a fertility clinic cause that's who can do IUI or whatnot is not the reality. Some of us will experience that, but we just don't know what our process is gonna look like. 

[00:34:25] You don't know what your pregnancy's gonna look like, you don't know what parenthood's gonna look like, or your birth is gonna be like. When we open ourselves up to having kids, we open ourselves up to this world of unknowns that we just kind of have to show up for. 

[00:34:38] Josie: Totally. Yeah. 

[00:34:41] Marea: Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing, like reach out to people. As queer people, People of the Global Majority, there's so many barriers. We do talk about how when you go to a sperm bank, there's way lower proportions of sperm from Black people, African Americans, Indigenous people. There's a lot of very unfortunate barriers for people who experience racism in our society.

[00:35:13] And there are people who have been through it who have that wisdom. Reaching out to our extended communities makes such a difference and not feeling like we're alone. You know, so many of my clients feel so isolated and just supporting people to break through that isolation and like, reach through the noise and be like, oh, there's a person over here who did this same thing, and I relate to them because of this.

[00:35:42] We do offer ways to build that community and find those connections and it makes such a difference. 

[00:35:50] Josie: Yeah. I think that's been kind of one of the silver linings of social media. Has been connecting, like finding your people, who's going through what you're going through.

[00:36:02] Yeah. 

[00:36:03] Marea: There are some downsides of the internet, but there are some, yeah. Some really wonderful benefits too. 

[00:36:08] Josie: Yeah, totally. And the group that I mentioned in your bio, Marea, is that for folks? Let's see. Pregnant together? 

[00:36:17] Marea: Yeah, so I just, we just launched like a few weeks ago and it's an online community, so basically people can sign up and get access to me, we do weekly Q&As and then building community with each other. And so there's like a trying to conceive place where people can connect and also, you know, there's like recorded classes and information, and then pregnancy and postpartum.

[00:36:43] It's definitely still, it's recently hatched, so we're still co-creating it, but it's really exciting and I think with the pandemic, like virtual stuff has become kind of more culturally acceptable. And I think there's like such wonderful things about that and being able to connect with and support people and you know, I wanna be able to support people as a midwife, support more people as a midwife.

[00:37:11] I think the midwifery model of care is so empowering because we focus on educating the person. It's non-hierarchical. and it's like about people taking the power back around their bodies and their decision making. And so I feel excited that this is a way that I can support a lot more people.

[00:37:31] Josie: Yeah, totally. So it is also for folks who are trying to conceive? 

[00:37:35] Marea: It is for folks who are trying to conceive and yeah, there's lots of resources and already a good handful of queer folks who are there supporting each other. So it'd be awesome to have you or any of the listeners and support that process.

[00:37:52] Josie: Nice. I love that. Is there anything that you all want to make sure that people know or that we didn't cover or get a chance to talk about or, yeah. Is there anything on your mind? 

[00:38:05] Marea: We are gonna be working on an online class teaching providers how to do intrauterine inseminations and like queer fertility care. So the, the plan and intention is for that to be out in the fall of 2023. 

[00:38:25] Ray: Yeah, so if you're in an area where there aren't any like midwife assisted IUIs, which is kind of this kind of in between the do it at home and a fertility clinic and you're like, reach out to a local midwife and be like, Hey, you wanna offer this for a community, then yeah. Point them in our direction. 

[00:38:42] Josie: So it's for midwives to take that training, 

[00:38:45] Ray: Like midwives, family doctors, advanced nurses, like practitioners. Folks who are kind in a position to be able to offer IUI care in a lower intervention setting, so not using ultrasounds, but instead using cycle tracking.

[00:39:01] Josie: Okay, got it. Oh, that's so awesome. Yay. 

[00:39:05] Ray: Just expanding all the options. 

[00:39:06] Josie: Yes. I mean, that's also what I love about the internet is it allows you to widen your impact and support more folks. And I love that. That's so cool. 

[00:39:18] Marea: Yeah. Hopefully in like 10 years, young queer people will be like, oh yeah, these are my options. And I know, yeah. And you know, this is what I think I wanna do, and it's not gonna be such a struggle to find that information. 

[00:39:33] Josie: Yeah. Yeah, and I think the more people who, for example, bring your book into their fertility consultation, or they're bringing these questions that they've learned, if more and more people are doing that, especially folks with more privilege are using that privilege to widen what people are asking for, then I think people and power have to, provide it.

[00:39:58] That will tip things, I think. 

[00:40:02] Marea: I hope so. 

[00:40:03] Josie: Yeah, me too. Besides buying your book, which I'm sure everyone will be doing, what else can queer, trans, non-binary and solo folks do to set themselves up for a successful conception journey? 

[00:40:18] Ray: The basics are like building your kind of team or community of support, whether it's friends or people who've been through this process before, queer confident birth workers, fertility acupuncturists. Learning about your own body so you understand what's happening. One of the coolest parts about cycle tracking is it can be diagnostic for hormonal based infertility and just starting to like, just explore. 

[00:40:47] If you're thinking that you might wanna have a baby in the next few years and you have a uterus start tracking your cycle and not with an app, like yeah, learning about the data from your body. So then you can get a sense of like when you're ovulating and decide kind of from there like which route of conception you wanna choose. If you are a person with sperm and not with eggs, then explore different routes of how people create families when they don't have a uterus in their life.

[00:41:12] Whether it's, if you want biological children or not. There's a lot of different pathways towards surrogacy. Some are very relational, others are more like formalized in an agency setting. And just kind of start dipping your toes in the water, like telling everyone that you know, that you might wanna pursue surrogacy and just yeah, kind of build relationship and connection.

[00:41:37] Marea: I would also add like, well, I've been thinking a lot too about like the internal barriers that we have around. Feeling like we deserve to be taken care of in certain ways. Or to nourish ourselves in certain ways. And we do talk about this in the book, like how our childhoods and our childhood traumas affect how we parent and they're gonna show up.

[00:42:08] That invitation to like, this might sound really cheesy, but I actually believe this. Nurture our own inner children as we're imagining bringing an actual child into the world. And I think in life in general, but like, especially during this time of our reproductive lives. It's so potent, and I think there's a lot of opportunity for healing. And it's like, bringing our whole selves to the process as much as possible. 

[00:42:44] Josie: Yeah, totally. I agree with that so much. And that's a lot of what I teach too, is like your conception journey can really end up being a journey back to your whole self. And so much of that includes that inner child. That you know what happened, what your story is and how that's affecting you on a spiritual, maybe emotional, maybe more subconscious level of bringing a child into the world. I think they're definitely related.

[00:43:17] Yeah, it's so cool. So lastly how can people find each of you, support you both and buy all your things? 

[00:43:29] Marea: So sweet. My website's restoremidwifery.com, Instagram is @restore_midwifery. Join pregnant together, you can find it at pregnanttogether.com or on Instagram @pregnanttogethercommunity.

[00:43:45] And I'm there. You can ask all the questions. We can chat every week and connect with other people. And so yeah, I've brought my midwifery practice online, so I would love to work with you and support you through your journey. 

[00:43:59] Josie: Amazing. How about you, Ray? 

[00:44:03] Ray: So people can find me on social media at @refugemidwifery. I'm part of a two midwife practice and then also at refugemidwifery.com. We do home birth and fertility care kind of in the greater Philadelphia area. I definitely do a fair amount of virtual fertility care for folks who just want a consult and how to guide them through this process.

[00:44:26] And then offer different classes and community education that you can find out about on Instagram or our website. 

[00:44:32] Josie: Perfect. And I'll include all those links in the show notes for easy access for folks. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right, well thank you both so much for coming on the podcast. I enjoyed this conversation so much. 

[00:44:45] Marea: Me too. Thank you so much for having us and thanks for doing the work that you do in supporting our communities. We always recommend fertility acupuncture. Nice. It's so supportive. 

[00:44:54] Ray: Yes, yeah. We are such big fans. 

[00:44:57] Josie: Oh, thanks both so much.

[00:45:02] Thanks for listening to the Intersectional Fertility Podcast. To get customized fertility recommendations based on your Whole Self Fertility Method element, join my mailing list at intersectionalfertility.com and get immediate access to my two minute quiz. 

[00:45:19] If you like the show and want to hear more, tap subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, and please leave us a review, it really truly helps. The Intersectional Fertility podcast is hosted by me, Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier, and produced by Rozarie Productions with original music by Jen Korte.

All content offered through The Intersectional Fertility Podcast is created for informational purposes only, it is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.