Episode 55 - Anna Balagtas: Navigating Queer Family Planning with Intention

Anna (she/they)  is a queer, Pinay radical birthworker and founder of Pocket Doula.  In this episode, we revisit Anna and Josie's conversation which touches upon the complexity of queer family planning, including Anna's reflections on her status, and how parents play a role in generational healing.

[ID: A beige background and orange semi-circle. Text reads: The Intersectional Fertility Podcast Episode 55: Anna Balagtas @pocketdoula and Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier @intersectionalfertility.]

Follow Anna on Instagram.
Support them on Patreon
Visit Pocket Doula's Website. 

Episode Transcript:

This is an automatically generated transcript edited to be more readable. It may not be 100% accurate.

[00:00:00] Josie: I am Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier, and this is the Intersectional Fertility Podcast, where ideas and identities intersect to deepen our understanding of fertility and ultimately our Whole Selves.

[00:00:32] Hello, friend, before we get started today with our episode, I wanted to give you a little update and let you know some exciting things coming up. I am in the midst of beginning my new cohort of Fertile, and it's just been so wonderful and giving myself a much needed break, hence the rerun today. But I'm so excited for, I've got so many wonderful, incredible folks lined up for interviews for the podcast.

[00:01:05] And I also am working on something really exciting that I will share more with you in the coming weeks. But a thought that I've always had is that I wish that I could connect people and my community to each other. I've always had that thought, you know, I've had that thought about my patients.

[00:01:21] I've had that thought about the podcast community, and so I'm working on a way that possibly this is gonna be able to happen. So I'm so excited. So stay tuned for more info about that. And yeah, Fertile registration is closed right now, but I will reopen it again probably, maybe late summer for the Fall cohort. So make sure you're on my mailing list so you're notified there.

[00:01:45] Or you can get on the Fertile wait list as well at intersectionalfertility.com, and then you can go to /fertile. In the meantime, if you need some resources or fertility support or help. I am here to support you one-on-one. You can book one-on-one sessions with me also on the website, intersectionalfertility.com.

[00:02:06] There's also some fertility webinars on my website for $35 each. Those are pre-recorded and there's some really good ones on there. When you join my mailing list on the website, you'll get access to a really fun quiz that will tell you which element you are according to my Whole Self Fertility Method.

[00:02:26] And then you get instant access to some really actionable fertility supporting things that you can do right now that support specifically who you are and the element that you are. So if you're wanting fertility support and since fertile registration is closed, and we're not gonna open it for a little bit, try and access some of those resources if you need.

[00:02:48] So something I was gonna ask from you is, something that would help me out so much and would mean the absolute world to me is if you could right now text a friend who you think would love this podcast, that would be so wonderful to increase our community and to grow and strengthen this virtual community that we have.

[00:03:11] And for what's coming next is gonna be really exciting. So it would be so cool to include folks that you think would wanna be included in the information that we're all learning in this podcast. So yeah, those are my updates for now, and I am just so excited for y'all to hear this episode. It's actually one of the top downloaded episodes, and it's with one of my dearest friends, Anna.

[00:03:34] If you haven't listened to this one, you're in for a real treat. And even if you have heard this one, it's such a good re-listen. Anna is just one of the most delightful people I know, as you'll see, and I hope you will enjoy it as much as I did. Alright, on with the show, and I will talk to you soon.

[00:04:01] Anna Balagtas is a queer Pinay, femme radical birth worker, educator facilitator, energy worker, and pleasure advocate. She's the founder of Pocket Doula and supports emerging birth workers in radicalizing their practice through heart centered mentorships, facilitations, and community organizing. Her deepest joy comes from witnessing our communities thrive through community care, mutual aid, and abolition work.

[00:04:31] Anna, welcome to the podcast. 

[00:04:34] Anna: Thank you for having me. 

[00:04:37] Josie: So excited to have you here today. So will you share with us what is the story that led you to doing the work that you do? Am I understanding correctly that it's birth work, energy work, and pleasure activism? Does that sum it up?

[00:04:51] Anna: Yes, that's exactly it. Oh my gosh, it's the perfect way to sum it up, absolutely. For me, it was a big snowball moment. I think one thing honestly led to the other so seamlessly. Before I was a birth worker, I was a nanny for six years and so I had always been around different types of families and caring for babies and caring for parents.

[00:05:16] And on the side of that, I was also practicing energy work. In my case it was reiki and it still is reiki, but I couldn't really meld the two together. So I felt really disconnected from my work as a nanny, cause that was my main job. And I wanted to so badly incorporate so much more of myself and my practice, but I didn't know how.

[00:05:40] And then I was introduced to birth work because I had folks in my life who were studying to become a doula. And I was like, wait, what? What's a doula? And I think from there, the light bulb really went up. And after a couple of years, I'm surrounded by this radical birth work community where there are so many intersections you could incorporate into your practice.

[00:06:04] And for me, that was  like tying all parts of myself, my whole self. So that was energy work, that was pleasure, that was dancing. I didn't need to compartmentalize myself anymore. Just because I was taking care of babies doesn't mean I can't dance, doesn't mean I can't do reiki, you know, I could be whole. From then on I just never looked back. 

[00:06:26] Josie: Oh, amazing. Yeah. I think that's been one of my biggest surprises around meeting so many birth workers in the last few years is just how all encompassing and political and revolutionary birth work really is.

[00:06:48] Anna: Mm-hmm. I love that word, all-encompassing cause that's exactly what it is. You don't need to shy away from different parts of yourself just because you're doing one thing. Birth work is an invitation for your whole self, and it's amazing that way.

[00:07:03] Josie: And why is that? I wonder, is it because we all have to be birthed?

[00:07:09] Anna: Oh, I love that, oh my gosh. You're right, you do have to be birthed. And you know, that's a great question. I don't know. I think because the work in itself is, it's so completely radical, and in it's own way. There's no one way to be a birth worker, you know?

[00:07:26] And so when we have a blank slate, like birth work, you can paint in so many different colors, in so many different ways, and you can really put your own spirit into what that means for you. So yeah, it’s, oh my gosh, what's the word? Initiation. It is a birth, it's an invitation and it's amazing.

[00:07:49] Josie: Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah, so cool. So what is particularly like radical and transformative about the queer care in particular that you provide to folks?

[00:08:03] Anna: I would say it's radical and it's transformative because it's me. It's my care, and my care is imbued with my spirit. And that's entirely my own. I believe it's incredibly transformative for queer folks to care for their queer kin.

[00:08:26] To be in a space where you don't feel like you have to explain yourself, because the person who's supporting you just gets it. And you don't need to have those like back and forth conversations of, “Oh, you feel that way, Why?” And it's like, “No. Say no more. I know exactly how you feel.”

[00:08:43] How many spaces do we have like that? Especially for queer, trans, Black, Indigenous and People of the Global Majority? I don't think we have very many. And also a huge part of radical care is that you're never in the position to assume what's best for the other person. 

[00:09:04] For me, what radical care means is that I'm staying curious. Like I have to stay open and my commitment is to you. It's completely to you. And I know you know yourself and I love that, and I celebrate that. And that's what's so radical and transformative about it.

[00:09:23] Josie: Oh my gosh, I just got goosebumps. That is radical and transformative, to stay curious and to trust that other person that they know themselves the best. Absolutely.

[00:09:34] Anna: Yeah. Oh, you can never assume that from another person. You could be the best carer on the block, but everyone that you encounter with has their own positional, their intersection, their positions, like they're entirely a completely new person.

[00:09:51] And what a disservice it would be if you're not coming up to them and asking them, what do you need? Because you have to trust that they know themselves. Like that's what you're coming in with.

[00:10:05] Josie: Totally. Ugh, I love that so much. That's so good. So when I first invited you to be on the podcast, I had a very different topic in mind, and then you pitched one much more wonderful, brilliant, much closer to your heart. Will you share with us what that topic is that's been on your heart lately?

[00:10:32] Anna: Yes, absolutely. And actually I remember exactly where I was when I was reading your email to be on your podcast, and I was so excited. But also that same day, I viscerally remember having this wild revelation in the morning that I don't wanna have kids anymore.

[00:10:53] Josie: Say that again cause I think I might have cut you off a little bit. 

[00:10:57] Anna: No, no, no. In the morning that you had sent me that email to be on your podcast, I had this big revelation that I don't wanna have kids anymore.

[00:11:10] That was really big for me, and I spent most of that day unpacking what this thought process was. When I saw your email I was like, I'm just gonna talk to Josie about this. I don't know what my thoughts are right now, but I'm sure this conversation will bring me somewhere.

[00:11:31] So I need to talk to Josie about this. What's been heavy in my heart is, I'm exploring the option of not wanting to have children anymore, even though literally all of my life I have been planning for my queer conception. Since when I found out, or came out as queer and it was in high school, even before that.

[00:12:01] I knew I wanted to have kids. This recent revelation came to me like early this year. I just, I don't want that anymore. I've been wanting to be a parent so badly and in the very many cases I am like, I think chosen family, there's, there's parts of yourself that can become parents to others.

[00:12:25] I just don't want my own blood kin anymore. And I'm exploring the feelings of not wanting to have kids and how it intersects with my queerness because I think those two things are related, and have been related for a long time.

[00:12:41] Josie: Yeah. Will you talk more about that? Like what's the relation there?

[00:12:44] Anna: Yeah. So for queer folks, queer family planning can take actual years. Like, years. And trying to conceive in itself already takes time. But, arguably for us, that time is doubled, if not tripled. And for me personally, I've always wanted to be the one to carry the baby.

[00:13:09] This I knew about myself. I wanted to feel my body expand and shape itself and to house this new being. But my question was always like, Okay, so how am I gonna get there? How am I gonna get pregnant in the first place? Because I knew I didn't wanna be in cis hetero relationships and my history at the time was that I was dating folks that didn't have sperm.

[00:13:33] I didn't know like what the trajectory of my life was gonna look like at that point. And so at first I had settled with this idea that my close friend would be my sperm donor.

[00:13:55] Actually when we were high school seniors, I fully asked him to like consider this as an option and I would check in with him like yearly to be like, Are you still in? Are you still gonna be like my sperm donor? Is this a yes? He was such a trooper.

[00:14:12] He's like, I'm ready when you're ready. Like when you wanna have a baby, I'll give you like what you need. I'm like, Thank you. But yeah, like I got married. I'm in a queer marriage with my partner Felix. When we started to bring up the conversations about pregnancy and family planning, we started to explore the idea of perhaps having sperm from someone we didn't know.

[00:14:38] Cause when I was having these conversations of trying to conceive for myself, I knew what I wanted. Then when you add another person to the mix, you have to compromise. You have to see what works for the both of you. So that was like starting from scratch again. 

[00:14:56] Like my whole plan was out the window. And it's like, okay, like how am I gonna do this with my spouse now? After that, the question wasn't how are we gonna find the sperm? It's how do we find the money to do this? Cause like, have you checked the sperm market lately?

[00:15:16] Josie: Oh, it is wild. It's expensive. 

[00:15:19] Anna: It's so, It's wild. Yeah, it's so expensive. And that doesn't even include like the shipping price, right? Like that's fully just for the sperm itself and you know, like how it gets to you is a completely different matter. But no, like, all joking aside, we decided that the first few years of our marriage just wasn't the right time.

[00:15:38] Because financially we weren't in a space to do it. And that made a lot of sense to me. Eventually our baby conversations started to dwindle. And Felix and I would just focus on each other's company and what being married without kids was like.

[00:15:59] And the idea of starting a family was starting to get lower and lower on our priority list. And at first that made me really sad. Cause that was years of planning in my brain that was kind of like, okay, let's start from scratch once again. And the reality is I'm not getting any younger. And I know where I am positionally in my age, I'm still pretty young. I'm only 25.

[00:16:03] Mm-hmm. Um, and at first that made me really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuz you know, like that's, that was years of planning in my brain that was kind of like, okay, let's start from scratch once again. Right. Um, and. The reality is like, I'm not getting any younger and I know I, where I am positionally in my age, like I'm still pretty young.

[00:16:25] Josie: Oh my goodness.

[00:16:30] Anna: Like, I'm a little bit bit, I really am, but if I wanted to have a baby by the time I'm 30, I wanna start now. I should be starting now. So, yeah, I was sad about not starting a family yet. And I think it's important to name that there are so many major disadvantages to the intersections of being queer and wanting to build a family.

[00:16:54] But one thing I really got from this is by being queer and having this time, I got to truly sit down with myself and ask, “Okay, Anna, are kids really what you want? Do you really wanna spend $30,000 trying to conceive? Are you ready to expand yourself and your responsibilities?”

[00:17:22] “And are you ready to explore your queerness alongside a little human?” At the end of the day, my answers to those questions were no. No, I'm not ready. Actually, I don't think this is what I want anymore. It's really because of my queerness and this time that I got to plan for myself, that I got to set aside for myself that I got to ask these hard questions.

[00:17:57] I really don't think I would've gotten to this in depth conversation with myself had I been in a cis hetero relationship. I really don't. That's why I think my queerness has really helped me explore my feelings of not wanting to have kids, cuz I got to sit down and look at my priorities straight on cause I had the time.

[00:18:18] Josie: And you have to be intentional about it, like there's no other choice when you're queer, conceiving.

[00:18:26] Anna: Exactly. Unless you had that privilege of being financially stable and had the capacity to just have $30,000 in your account for whenever. Then great for you, but most of us don't have that.

[00:18:41] Josie: Right. Or if you're in a queer relationship where there is a sperm producer and an egg producer. In that case too.

[00:18:46] Anna: Exactly. Absolutely. But for me personally like, those things were just not accessible to me, so, yeah. I needed that time and I got that time. 

[00:19:01] Josie: Wow. So how does that feel like, how do you feel now kind of being on the other side of that decision?

[00:19:08] Anna: I thought I would be sadder. Than I would have. Yeah, but I honestly think like being in birth work and being a nanny for all those years too,  had a role to play. Cuz I saw firsthand how much your life changes when you introduce humans into the mix.

[00:19:27] Josie: Boy does it. Yeah.

[00:19:29] Anna: Yeah. And I don't think that you lose, Well, this is my own reflection, but I don't believe I'm gonna lose parts of myself. But I do absolutely believe that I'm gonna gain parts of myself that I might not be ready for. I'm gonna gain responsibilities I might not be ready for.

[00:19:48] And I may be passing on intergenerational trauma that I'm not realizing I'm passing on, and am I ready for that? I don't know.

[00:20:04] Josie: That's a really good question, that's a really good question. And I feel like too, a lot of folks that I work with you know, I feel like this is sort of a taboo subject.

[00:20:19] Because it's like, especially I think once you're in the conceiving journey and then it's like, when do I stop? When do I make that decision of just cutting my losses? Not doing this anymore, Deciding not to be a parent, like for sure. 

[00:20:43] Boy, that feels so tough and heavy, for folks to come to that decision. I'm wondering if there's anything you can offer there, advice to folks around contemplating something as big as this.

[00:20:57] Anna: Oh darn that. Hmm. Yeah. It's, you invest so much of your time and yourself and your family too, if you're doing this with family.

[00:21:07] When you're trying to conceive and, Oh, as for advice, I honestly, I wanna make space to say I don't have any, like Yeah, I'm sure that these folks have gotten plenty of advice. I know there's so many unwanted advice when it comes to trying to conceive that, like I know, I know you've heard your fair share.

[00:21:36] And so, what I can offer you right now is a listening ear. And I know for you folks who are experiencing this grief and pain and you're struggling, I think giving you any sort of advice doesn't honor the feelings that you're experiencing right now. And I'm in no place to try and console you.

[00:21:58] Absolutely none. You know what's best for you. And if you want to fight and keep going, fight. But if you're done, you're freaking done. You're done. All of your decisions, they have the right to be celebrated no matter what they look like. Even if you're flip flopping one thing to another, that flip flop, should you be celebrated.

[00:22:20] And regardless of what you might do, just know that I'm extremely proud of you, wherever you may be. I'm in complete awe of you, wherever you might be. I'm holding space for you, wherever you might be, and I'm here for you, wherever you might be. And I hope that's enough. You deserve so much joy, and I know you'll find it.

[00:22:46] Josie: Yeah. Oh, I love that. That feels very nourishing to hear. 

[00:22:52] Anna: Oh, that makes me so happy.

[00:22:55] Josie: Something that stood out to me that you said, when you're thinking about the the responsibilities that you're not sure whether or not you're ready to take on is when you said, when you were doing lots of childcare, that you were also taking care of the parents.

[00:23:10] I was like, Wow, yes, Because there's so much there. Parents also need so much care and support when they bring in a little human to the equation. And you being on that end makes a lot of sense for coming to this conclusion. At this point I'm just being like, I've been there, like I've seen like what care is really involved.

[00:23:39] Anna: For sure, yeah. No, it's a massive undertaking, to have children. You are responsible for so much. And there are things that you don't even realize you're responsible for. And I see this quite a lot cuz I hold space for mostly BIPGM folks, so Black, Indigenous, and People of the Global Majority when it comes to nannying.

[00:24:06] And we have conversations about intergenerational trauma. Because most of these folks are children of immigrants. And as a child of immigrants we carry so much trauma. There's so much we're holding and then we want to stop that cycle. And that cycle to not be passed on to our kids.

[00:24:31] It doesn't happen one night. You might have slip ups, you might have things that you don't realize you have said, that has now created this trauma for your person. And I don't think I'm ready for that. Like, I don't wanna be responsible for that. And at one point I was thinking, am I being selfish?

[00:24:52] Am I choosing myself because I'm too scared? Am I choosing myself because I'm too selfish? I don't think so. I think I'm choosing myself because it's my right to, because I really don't want to harm another person. I really don't. And I know sometimes you can't help that and you will, even if your intentions are good.

[00:25:15] But personally, I am not ready for that undertaking. And I have seen in postpartum the parents who think about this every single night of like, am I doing right by my kids? Am I making sure that they have everything they need and I don't have capacity for that? And I think that should also be celebrated.

[00:25:38] Josie: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, and we are not set up for success in this culture around raising kids. So it's almost like choosing also to not enter into that system that's so messed up. Yeah. 

[00:26:00] Anna: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And kudos to parents who are really trying to figure this out. Like, I'm not saying that just because you haven't healed yourself doesn't mean that you can't spread your love and your joy to another human. Like that's not at all what we're seeing here. I do want to hold space that I've had the privilege to really think this out for myself.

[00:26:23] But that doesn't negate, you know, the work that you're doing, even if you haven't had the chance to sit down with yourself and ask yourself these questions. Absolutely does not.

[00:26:33] Josie: For sure, yeah. Both are completely valid. Yeah, I was just talking to my partner this morning. It's funny that you said that. You were like, Am I being selfish? I literally said those words this morning to my partner.

[00:26:44] Anna: Oh my gosh.

[00:26:46] Josie: Because I was like, It is one of the hardest things that I'm up against a lot as a parent is thinking, how much do I focus on me and myself and my dreams and what I want? And how much do I focus on my kids?

[00:27:03] And it's like, at what point is it beneficial for them to see me, focusing on me. And at what point does that become a liability for their growth. It's so tricky.

[00:27:21] Anna: Can I ask where you landed on that? I'm so invested in this now, like, oh my gosh. And then what?

[00:27:33] Josie: I will tell you, I come up against this question probably once a week. So I am always like being like, Is this, am I doing this right? Is this gonna like mess them up long term? Am I like showing up? And my partner is so grounding, she's a double Capricorn and so she,

[00:27:59] Anna: Oh my gosh, God bless the Capricorn. Felix is also a Capricorn, so I really hear this.

[00:28:06] Josie: Like, I literally dunno what I would do without that Capricorn energy.

[00:28:10] Like, I literally dunno what I would do without that Capricorn energy. And she's always so grounding and always. Always lands on the side of you need to prioritize yourself. You know, in order to be this amazing parent that you are and showing up in this way for them. For them to see you doing this is hugely healing and you know, modeling for them.

[00:28:34] You know, how to be in the world. So that's where I try to land, but it is hard. Like I don't always get there. And, I have to keep getting there. Like I have to keep coming back to that question and having that conversation to be like, is that still true?

[00:28:50] Anna: Yeah, it's hard to put those two things together of like, is working on myself, meaning that I'm no longer working on my children? 

[00:29:01] Cause I think that's the question that is really being posed here. Like the more I work on myself, does that mean I'm working less with my kids? But I really love what your partner said about no, like, this is modeling behavior.  And bridging those two things together. Like, I'm thinking if I were in your position and or if I were in your kid's position, like what would I have wanted to see?

[00:29:24] I think honestly, if I saw my parent doing their thing and like just incredibly happy, thriving, surviving, I would love that for them. Yeah, I would love that for them. And if they sat me down at the end of the night, like, yeah, sometimes you might feel like my parent hasn't paid attention to me in such a long time. 

[00:29:49] I feel really badly about this. And it's having those discussions at the end of the night of like, I'm doing what's best for me, but that doesn't mean that I'm leaving you out of the equation. I love you so much, I do this for me and for you. And when you can do this for yourself, I will be right behind you. 

[00:30:09] And thank you. I'm so deep in gratitude that you're here to witness me. Like, if I heard that thing from my parents, I'd be like, Oh shit. Yeah. Okay. Do your own thing. Then I'm like, Fine, I'm fine. Do you, do you. You know, like you can have it all. You really can.

[00:30:36] Josie: That's so funny. I know. I'm always like, what is really going on in their heads? Like what are they thinking? And how is this, I always feel like I say this to my partner a lot. I'm like, I always feel like I'm communicating to them. In their past, like I'm like here in their past with them right now, like in their childhood.

[00:30:58] So I feel like I'm talking to them as adults, but like kind of like through their childhood.

[00:31:05] Anna: Say more!

[00:31:07] Josie: It feels like I'm time traveling. I'm like, here I am in this like very formative time of their lives where things can have a lot of influence and change and these are gonna be like core memories that are developing.

[00:31:21] You know what I mean? I'm like here at this moment in time where I can like, almost like they're gonna remember, like who knows what part of the stuff they're gonna remember, but like some of these conversations, that we're having now, like they might, it might influence things, you know?

[00:31:38] Many decades down the road. So it's, yeah. Anyway, talk about like huge responsibility. Of just feeling like that, like bigness, that weight of like, I feel like I'm affecting the future in like a multi exponential way. As opposed to just being me.

[00:32:05] Anna: For sure. Like it's like a butterfly effect, but now it's affecting like all of your kids.

[00:32:11] Josie: Exactly. 

[00:32:13] Anna: That's so true. I love that. I love that. You know, we we're holding a space for like the moments that. Are mundane to us. Like what does it mean for our kids? Like what are you taking from this conversation?

[00:32:25] What are you taking from this mundane moment? And is this the one thing that's gonna be like in your head for when you're 30 and you're like, Remember that time? My parent did this. It's like, we don't know what that moment is exactly, but they sure do. And it's like, okay, what is it gonna be? Let's play Russian roulette.

[00:32:49] Josie: Oh my gosh. Totally. 

[00:32:52] Anna:  Oh my gosh. I, I really feel for you, Josie, you are doing some incredible things. Like not only are you doing this for yourself, but you are like wildly responsible for your kids too, and like what outcomes look like for them. And I have so much respect for you, any parent, honestly, if you are doing this for yourself and for other people, you have my massive and utmost respect.

[00:33:20] You are doing the hard work. 

[00:33:22] Josie: Yeah, totally. I know. And it's, it's all hard work, right? I think anyone who's working towards their own healing, in any capacity, whether or not there's littles involved, it is just, woo, It's such hard work. It's so worth it, liberating ourselves and becoming whole and doing that work, but, oh my goodness.

[00:33:43] Yeah. It's really, it's tough.

[00:33:51] Anna: Yeah. And I love that. I love that we're saying that, you don't have to be healed in order to have kids. And it's the same thing too. Like I've seen this thing of like, you can't love another person if you don't love yourself. Like that's bullshit, yes you can.

[00:34:04] Yes you can. Cause you know, like loving yourself and working on yourself is gonna take your whole life.

[00:34:12] Josie: Right? It's not like you're gonna get to this point where you're like, Now I'm healed. Now I can be in relationship with others.

[00:34:21] Anna: Yes. Like I love myself now. Now I can love you like, what system are you operating in? That is not how it works.

[00:34:30] Josie: Exactly. It's like a board game. I won. 

[00:34:38] Anna: Take two steps back if you had a bad thought about yourself. 

[00:34:41] Josie: Right, right. Exactly. Go back to go, back to start.  

[00:34:46] Anna: Exactly. Yeah, no we're not about that here.

[00:34:48] Josie: No, we're not. We're not.

[00:34:52] So I'm wondering if like, about switching gears a little bit and talking about cuz I know that you kind of specialize in queer family planning. I feel like this could be really helpful for a lot of folks who are listening. Like how is, I know we've touched on it a little bit like, but how is family planning different for queer folks?

[00:35:14] And I know, and can you share like any experiences like professional or personal that you've had that speak to that difference?

[00:35:22] Anna: I know that queer family building as a whole is pretty fucking heartbreaking. Of course there's joy and love and celebration, but when I speak to my queer kin, and even in my own experiences, the process of trying to conceive like, what is it like for you? The collective answer is that it's draining.

[00:35:44] It's heartbreaking and it can really hurt. And financially we have to be so much more prepared for the costs of trying to conceive and alongside like having funds to support the baby, we also need to have funds to even get ready to even begin, right.

[00:36:06] A past client of mine who is a Seahorse Papa, expressed over and over again, how it felt like he was losing or giving up parts of himself just to be a parent and questioned, is this really even worth it? Is parts of myself being gone really worth this? His story is not my story to share.

[00:36:31] So I've asked for consent for on sharing this part of experience. But he just expressed again and again how the medical system is absolutely not a safe space for queer folks. And there may be safer practitioners and safer supports, but as a whole, the medical system fails our queer kin. Especially our queer and trans and gender non-conforming Black, Indigenous and People of the Global Majority kin. 

[00:37:05] And yeah, we have so many barriers and trauma spots like waiting for us in this path when it comes to family building. And we jump so many hoops that perhaps our cis, hetero counterparts like don't even have to think twice about. And I'm not even talking about the trauma of using the wrong pronouns at the clinic. 

[00:37:30] I know so many of my queer kin need medical attention, but will weigh the options of, can I withstand this pain? Or should I seek medical attention knowing that there's gonna be a good chance I'm gonna be harmed. And I'm gonna experience trauma in the care of my provider.

[00:37:50] Like queer family planning is sacred. It's so sacred and it's so divine, but it's fucking heartbreaking.

[00:38:02] Josie: Yeah, that's so true. And I feel like, I feel like what is starting to get more recognition and more widely known as like white lesbians conceiving at the fertility clinic, you know what I mean? Where it's like,

[00:38:19] Anna: I know exactly what you mean.

[00:38:18] Like that is like, cool, we're inclusive. You know? Yeah. And it's like, Oh boy. There's just so much that's just the tip of the iceberg about, how much more inclusive these fertility clinics need to actually be.

[00:38:39] Anna: Yes. Oh yes. And you know, there's that fair share of white, predominantly white fertility clinics who have that like one poster of a trans family or like that one poster of perhaps a person of a global majority, like having a baby and it's like pictures are not enough. Like, what are you actually doing to support us?

[00:39:00] This isn't a reflection of your inclusivity and diversity. If anything, this is just performative. This is so performative of you.

[00:39:12] Josie: Yeah. When there's like real harm being done. I mean, I don't know if there is any advice, but if what advice do you have for queer folks who are, family planning right now? Especially to those who are struggling or losing hope.

[00:39:30] Anna: No matter where you may be landing right now, it's the right spot for you. It is. Even if you are struggling, even if you are in fear, even if you are in pain, I want you to hold that space for you. I wish that you didn't have to experience this at all, but no matter where you are landing in your journey, you will come to joy.

[00:39:55] You know, that is all I can hope for you and please know, you have so much support in your hands and we are a part of that. You're a queer kin. We are 100% a part of that. And I think, I honestly, I speak for our QTBIPGM Kin, when we say you don't have to think twice to coming to us and asking if you have the capacity to listen to you, because we will, like collectively our community is Fricking amazing.

[00:40:27] I have never met such a community that has been so ready to just open and hold someone in whatever space that they need. And so for any of y'all who are listening out there and you are experiencing this grief and this pain, know that we are 100% here for you and we will listen and we will hold that container for you.

[00:40:49] Josie: Yeah. I love that. I hope that I hope that that provides a lot of comfort for folks who are listening.

[00:41:00] Anna: Me too.

[00:41:02] Josie: In Chinese medicine our fertility is referred to as our essence. And so the more we're able to get in touch with our essence or who we really are, the more access we have to our fertile potential or our creative power. 

[00:41:16] So this is what I teach in my, all my online offerings and the Whole Self Fertility Method. And so I wonder if, do you have any personal practices or rituals in place that allow you to connect with your essence or your whole self?

[00:41:31] Anna: Oh, I love this question, let's see. I think my, my rituals really change as I enter different parts of myself. 

[00:41:39] But right now, something I really love doing is free writing. So, yeah, like I'll get, I'll do this on my laptop and I'll open up a completely blank word document. I'll start a timer. The most I can do right now is five minutes. But I'm working my way up. But I'll start a timer for five minutes and start typing literally anything and everything.

[00:42:03] That comes into my brain and I don't stop to correct my grammar or reread a sentence or to look for spelling mistakes. Like I will just type, type, type, type. And sometimes I'll just key smash cause I'm like, I need to keep this going, but I dunno what to say. Yeah.

[00:42:18] Josie: Wait, what was the word you used? Keys smash?

[00:42:21] Anna: Typed or, yeah keys smash.

[00:42:23] Josie: Yeah. I love that. I've never heard that before.

[00:42:26] Anna: Like as long as my fingers don't like, leave the keyboard. So, yes, I'll do this for like five minutes and I think for me it's a really great way for myself to regulate my, my whole body really, especially my brain, when I'm having a dysregulated moment.

[00:42:47] Especially when I'm feeling overwhelmed or anxious, like I'll do this on my laptop or my phone. I used to write in my journals, but my handwriting is not quick enough to catch up to what my brain is saying.

[00:42:58] Josie: Yes, I can relate to that.

[00:43:02] Anna: Yeah. Like, it cannot, and my brain is so chatty that I need to start being in a typing platform instead. 

[00:43:09] And yeah. I'm finding that the best times for me to do this is right in the mornings. Cause like, when I'm experiencing dreams, I wanna remember them right away. So I'm like, I need my laptop. Like, I gotta write this down. Or right before I go to bed so I can empty out that chatter box brain that I have before I do a big sleep.

[00:43:29] Josie: Yes. Oh, I love that so much. And it's so true. I feel that frustration when I'm handwriting, that I can't keep up with my thoughts. And then my, my hand will actually get sore.

[00:43:43] Anna: Yeah. It'll cramp up. And you're like what's happening?

[00:43:48] Josie: Totally. So that makes so much sense. Maybe I should start typing instead of writing. 

[00:43:54] Anna: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Or it's also fun to do voice notes because like you just don't stop talking for five minutes and then you start saying really random things and then you listen to it and you replay it and you're like, I'm hilarious. I love this. And you really get to enjoy yourself. You're like, what am I saying?

[00:44:11] Josie: Right, right. Oh, that's so funny. Do you ever get the feeling, like, I get the feeling when I do that free writing exercise that I start to access almost like a different voice. And I'm sort of like, I feel like I can connect with like a bigger version of myself. Do you feel that way?

[00:44:31] Anna: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, I'm so happy you mentioned that. Yeah. I think when I'm like, just allowing myself to think, think, think. Write, write, write, I get to really witness me. Like what does my brain actually say? Like, what thoughts do I actually have?

[00:44:54] And, it doesn't feel, I don't feel alone when I'm doing it. I feel like I'm talking to myself or witnessing myself and it's so cool. It's, for me, it's the, it's the same version of like, have you ever stared at yourself in the mirror? Just fully like sat down or stood up in front of a mirror and looked at yourself.

[00:45:10] Like it's kind of creepy, it's kinda freaky. But you do get to access yourself in that way. And free writing is just another one of those ways that you can do that. 

[00:45:17] Josie: Totally, totally. That's fascinating. Yeah. Cuz it's like there's no barrier or there's like, you're kind of opening that, lifting that veil a little bit.

[00:45:30] Anna: Yes. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

[00:45:33] Josie: Yeah. And I love that too, of like doing it to try to remember your dreams. Because then I feel like I, in the past when I've had like really consistent practices about writing first thing in the morning and then my dreams come up, then I remember more and more of my dreams the morning.

[00:45:49] The more I do that, and then I can really use my dreams as like a tool. Or I could really like, you know, start to like, ask questions before I go to bed, and then like get some answers in the morning, like from certain dreams. Like, do you do anything like that with your dreams?

[00:46:07] Anna: Oh my gosh, yeah. If you look at my Google search, it's like, What does big green whale mean? dream interpretation. What does half eaten Apple mean? Dream interpretation. Like they're so, like my Google search is a mess, but it's the things that stand out to you in your dreams. They obviously mean something, so like figure it out. Like what does it mean?

[00:46:28] Josie: Somebody knows what this one is.

[00:46:35] Anna: Yeah, no, I completely hear you. I see you. I hear you. I feel you.

[00:46:42] Josie: Well, Anna, how can people find you online and support you and sign up for all your things?

[00:46:48] Anna: Yes, so you can find me. I'm mainly on Instagram. My handle is @PocketDoula. I'm also on Patreon if you'd like to support me there. So that's also @PocketDoula. And you can see my website at www.yourpocketdoula.com.

[00:47:06] Josie: I love it. Anna, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. This was such a fun conversation to have with you.

[00:47:13] Anna: Oh, thank you so much for having me and for holding that space for me of, you know, Also trying to figure out what not having kids and how that intersects with queerness is like, because honestly, Josie, you're probably one of the very first people I've had this out loud conversation with, and let's celebrate that.

[00:47:32] Like what an amazing feeling. So thank you for holding this container for me. 

[00:47:36] Josie: Ugh, it's an honor.

[00:47:41] Thanks for listening to the Intersectional Fertility Podcast. To get customized fertility recommendations based on your Whole Self Fertility Method element, join my mailing list at intersectionalfertility.com and get immediate access to my two minute quiz. If you like the show and wanna hear more, tap subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and please leave us a review.

[00:48:05] It really, truly helps. The Intersectional Fertility Podcast is hosted by me, Josie Rodriguez-Bouchier, and produced by Rozarie Productions with Original Music by Jen Korte.

All content offered through The Intersectional Fertility Podcast is created for informational purposes only, it is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.